After Laughter (Comes Tears)
posted by max on June 12, 2007 at 06:45:13 PM
I've always felt that YTMND should focus more on the content being produced than the users that produce the content itself.
Back in 2004 a lot of the content on the front page included links to a user's profile and at some point in time this stopped.
While the site's identity continues to grow, there isn't much of an outlet for users to gain an identity beyond their sites.
With suggestions and help from others I've created a beta version of a new scoring system that will privately rank users based on a number of criteria. This can then be used to give users who create great content more exposure, as well as being used as a method of highlighting content that will most likely be generally well received. Obviously the algorithm will be tweaked over the next few weeks but I hope to make it a useful part of the site. I don't want to turn this into a popularity contest, so for the time being I have no plans of publishing a list of users with associated scores.
Another upcoming change is the Hall-of-Fame, which will see a total re-haul. The Hall-of-Fame has not reflected the true spirit of YTMND and has been used as a repository of sorts. A lot of the items that don't belong will be removed and a lot that do belong will be added.
With suggestions and help from others I've created a beta version of a new scoring system that will privately rank users based on a number of criteria. This can then be used to give users who create great content more exposure, as well as being used as a method of highlighting content that will most likely be generally well received. Obviously the algorithm will be tweaked over the next few weeks but I hope to make it a useful part of the site. I don't want to turn this into a popularity contest, so for the time being I have no plans of publishing a list of users with associated scores.
Another upcoming change is the Hall-of-Fame, which will see a total re-haul. The Hall-of-Fame has not reflected the true spirit of YTMND and has been used as a repository of sorts. A lot of the items that don't belong will be removed and a lot that do belong will be added.
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On the bright side, your pink name will probably disappear after they've downvoter you enough, and then they'll turn their attention to someone else. Joking, obviously. ;p Of course this behavior is biased and inappropriate, and I hope users don't resort to such discrimination, as they will only be hurting ytmnd.
If yr gonna keep this whole featured idea, I agree with this change. Having their names showing makes this obnoxious, and having it be their most recent site means that it shows up two, sometimes three times on the FP, which defeats the purpose of varying content. Plus, it means that if one of them feels like making a fart joke type site (which should not be discouraged) it makes it stand out as extra weak, as it suddenly represents "the ytmnd user elite".
That said, I still think you should just select users you think represent the site as you envision it, then let them select their favorite sites (theirs and others) to showcase like this, rather than attempting to let vote/view-based math attempt to highlight what is "good" material. Math can't solve everything!
I agree, too. Keep the featured user list, but get rid of the pink because it's turning into a big downvoting target. I know there is still some tweeking to do on that list because ollj, cac0, texaggie79, and a few other have no business to be on the list. I like the idea of a featured site section. I think it would be better if the sites had a rating threshold (maybe above 3.5 or 3.75) and keep sites made within 72 hours off the list.
It's kind of redundant to have the same sites on the featured list, U&C, and top viewed at the same time. Also, you mentioned tweeking the HoF. Maybe add a "Hall of Shame". A place where heavily linked, bad sites like HTPAT and linked WoW sites can be placed so they don't stay on the "top viewed" list for months or weeks on end.
I like these ideas. Instead of recent sites, and instead of random sites, the featured section could have sites that are over 4.00 stars and over 72 hours old, by those users. How often certain users are on the front page can be determined by that algorithmic scoring system max came up with. (whatever it is)
I think I agree with gr33nscr33n's 2nd comment.. but that would be a lot of responsibility for the selected users to take on. I mean, you wouldn't want the section to turn into another "Moderator Favorites". The thing is, sites are usually favorited for personal reasons, and would not necessarily be rated well by the general ytmnd populace.
In regards to gr33n's idea, I almost think there should be an anonymous poll where all users can submit one user name they'd like to be a representative for the featured category. (no self-voting though) The result? I don't know, maybe a lot of the same names would turn up.. it's always a popularity contest. The main difference is that you'd get more variety probably. Inkdrinker and others with low rated sites would show up, for example.
For those who dislike the featured list algorithm... if there was a poll, would it not be fair then? Since the users themselves would literally decide the names who go in, there would be a lot less complaints about the result. Top 50 users nominated might end up including names like MurdarMachene, directory, AwesomeBob, karndude, etc.. users that have some following, though weren't included by the featured users algorithm.
Re: roq's "would not necessarily be rated well by the general ytmnd populace." In the last few months I've become ever more convinced that, with a userbase this large and a "democracy" of one user/one vote, that site voting just doesn't work anyway. I could be totally alone here, but I think that the whole "overhaul" of this place should be to do away with voting/site ratings.
Thus keep RC as is, but the rest of the FP could be currated by a set of selected users picked by max/mods. Content would rotate daily, hourly, weekly, etc. New users would discover content by clicking through networks of users who had "listed" each other (you'd have both Fav Sites and Fav Users). You could comment all you want, but no voting because there'd be no need for it anymore. This would render dving alts useless, it'd kill off revenge dving, and it keep sh*t from taking over the FP for weeks.
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I really think that you and a small group of trusted mods need to spend a few hours and evaluate everyone on the featured user list. The fact that WTL is on the list really pisses me off. All his popular sites are stolen from 4chan and you now risk having a goatse site on the featured section. He represent everything that is wrong with YTMND, yet all of his sites get highlighted now.
Not to mention he's now accumulating roughly 2,000 downvotes A DAY, as of recently. Before you had to view sites to vote on them, it was still extremely time consuming to rack up 1,000 a day. Even if you put me and Btape together, it would still take around 2 weeks for us to vote as much as he 1-stars in a few days. At his current rate, He'll have a larger margin of downvotes than punisher in about a month or two if he keeps it up at this rate.
Hey max, i'm experiencing bugged NSFW voting with my #! option. When I go to a NSFW site I get the triangle overlay (though my options say I prefer otherwise), and when I click it, I am unable to vote on NSFW sites. Considering you can't seem to vote from the site profile, and only from the site, this bug makes me unable to vote. Just letting you know.
If you aren't part of a group, be it FPA, Vent, or just Aim buddies nor are you featured and you make a site chances are you, like everyone else, are going to get a couple of Auto 1 votes from users like Punisher, etc. So say you get a total of 10 votes while on recently created. Lets say 4 people give you 5 and 4 give you 4. With the 2 downvotes that's an average of 3.8. And you miss up and coming and no one sees your site again. Even though real voters gave you a 4.5, thanks to trolls no one sees it.
And I'm not whining for myself. I think a lot of my sites have gotten more views and better ratings than they deserve. So I'm good. But I know how it can be and I imagine a lot of quality sites and users have been lost because of this. Delete the votes of anyone who votes 1 more than 90% of the time - see if it doesn't change things a little. Same should go for people who only 5.
The more I think about it, the more I agree with gr33n and others who've said ratings and votes shouldn't have such powerful influence over the front page. Ratings aren't important, the individual user should be able to find sites that appeal to his or her taste more easily, without having to use a search function. YTMND needs a mature (and diversely comprised) staff team who will be committed to managing what kind of material ends up on the front page.
ALL OF YOU JUST SHUT UP AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA OKAY