5'd cuz it's the f*ckin truth!

+2

This is actually a good ytmnd, kudos to you sir.

Goooooo Darwin!!

Awesome loop there. xD

paradox :O

I did that once with a jehova witness. It didn't last indefinitly but did go in a circle about twice. Great work.

It's called "faith"

-2

1'd because of oversimplification.

-1

"It's called "faith"" So just because you think something is there it means it's there? I'm sorry, but I refuse to believe in a giant space wizard that made the man out of dirt and instead of just making woman out of dirt too, he made her out of a rib and pointlessly mutilated man.

So Scientology wins?

hooray for scientology!

nice loop

so true

This is pretty inaccurate and way oversimplifying the argument.

-1

4 for accurately depicting christians but still being funny lol

well, so we don't have to argue about religion itself, this ytmnd is criticizing the arguments used by creationists, etc.

+1

he they always say the hardest part is faith that they arent fools

I usually just start rubbing myself when they won't go away, but this could be fun

Wow, I could have never thought of that XD

Lol, that's entirely true, every time I am in a debate about that it just comes down to that loop of "logic".

+1

1'd for reducing a religion down to a statement. Beliving there's a "giant space wizard" makes as much sense as "oh, we all evolved from a giant explosion, ok". If you've taken no time to actually study a religion, dont bash it, because you'll fail. hard.

-1

I may be Christian, but that's how most people will actually explain God's existence.

+1

Five because I've actually had this -same exact- conversation.

+1

look its a ytmnd.... *sees ytmnd* ... wait no its not

-1

5 for truth.

+1

5'ed. Christianity is just as insane and cruel as Scienteology.

how can the bible be wrong, if it says that it correctly prophecied many events that are supposed to have happened before it was written.

I can't believe dogmatic retards, whose deduce truth from an ancient text that portrays God as a vindictive, childish, murdering bastard, would downvote this because it brings into question their ridiculous beliefs.

I actually had this exact conversation with my friend. What an enclosed world the "faithful" live in. Creepy!

+1

I wouldnt use this as a total arguement against religion. But this does point out the "Faith" that blinds most religious people.

+1

@foam Yeah.. And you'd be over here going "OMG U STUPID IDEOT TEH BIG BANEG KREETED EVERYTINGS" if someone made a similar YTMND just using darwinism.

5'd for anything anti-religion

I F*CKING HATE RELIGIOUS ZEALOTS.

+2

Downvoters need to relax. This doesn't attempt to disprove God; it's a statement about naive and uneducated followers who assume without questioning.

Some people will die to protect there views... those that understand this stuff, we make up about 8% of the American population... stay strong. Nothing is simplifying the argument, it is all circular logic. Awesome.

Notice this is only 1'd or 5'd. You can see the Christians getting mad...comic genius above me.

I hate religious people, because they do that, they just back up lies with more lies, and create a web of lies to cover more lies!

It takes a lot more verbage to argue with a real religious person.

loop, loop, loop, loop, loop, loop, loop, loop, loop, loop, loop, loop, loop, loop, loop, loop, loop, loop,

PS: Try to guess if I'm religious or not!

Thank YOU for making it so easy to explain, jesus. Had this convo last week, wish I had these words.

whoa, I could hardly tell it looped. Trippy. 5 and fav

Well you have to admit, that IS a pretty good argument.

+1

Haters, please chill. This is not religion vs. secularism. If you're religious and don't like my YTMND, please post a reasoned retort.

5'd for a genius use of gif looping

+1

Funny cause its true. And I know that for a fact, have gotten into many arguments before, and this ytmnd sums up all they had.

+1

This is ytmnd.

logic, lol

theyre just covering their asses...

I F*CKING HATE ATHEIST ZEALOTS.

-2

I've debated with a LOT of Christians over the years, and the majority of them couldn't get past this exact "argument." This isn't religion vs. secularism so much as reasoning vs. stupidity.

+2

Five for truth and pissing people off :D

+1

Awww... somebody didn't get enough hugs...

@ malomeat: I thought you were supposed to love your enemies? (I'm assuming you're Christian)

Who thought that illogical tripe could make such a great loop?

This site is actually very interesting as it doesn't say either side is truly right. While its true that the Christian here is using circular logic, the non-Christian (presumibly anyway, we Christians do get bothered by door-to-door Christians too...) is also very stubborn in his beliefs. Its very interesting, as many non-Christians bash Christians for being so stubborn about a ton of BS, but the Christian views the Non-Christian in THE SAME WAY. BOTH sides (as shown in the YTMND) use circular logic.

+1

"Why will you [The Square] refuse to listen to reason? I had hoped to find in you--as being a man of sense and an accomplished mathematician-- a fit apostle for the Gospel of the Three Dimensions, which I am allowed to preach once only in a thousand years: but now I know not how to convince you." -The Sphere, from the novel "Flatland"

+1

@ OptimusPrim Very cool comment! But I don't see the non-Christian as using circular logic, as he's not actually making an argument. He's simply asking questions to the Christion to ask the Christian to defend HIS logic.

Oh good lord. More catchphrase religious commentary. Yep. You cornered them. You have crushed religion because you pointed out a logical fallacy used by idiots with a tenuous grasp of logic, regarding religion or anything else. Fantastic loop, though. A better argument: God exists, and is perfectly good, infinte, etc. Use whatever support for that statement that you want, but I'm assuming its truth for consideration of the space available here. Therefore, he would want to may sure his creation received...

Silly religious folks.

...the special revelation, which regards his specific qualities and actions. Better argument regarding the subject matter, take it for what it's worth. Smart people are good at logic, regardless of their religious beliefs.

...Except for the fact that the Bible was written by over 40 different people in 3 different languages across 3 continents over a period of 1500 years, and there isn't a single contradiction. That's how we know it's God's word.

LOL looped gif.

I like it. I had a lengthy discussion with KingD that went quite a bit like that. --------------- "...Except for the fact that the Bible was written by over 40 different people in 3 different languages across 3 continents over a period of 1500 years, and there isn't a single contradiction. That's how we know it's God's word." ---------- You know that because it says so in the bible!

It IS an oversimplification. The Christians that actually think about their faith (as opposed to the ignorant fools depicted in the YTMND) wouldn't try to justify the Bible's truth through, well, the Bible, and there's where the real debate begins. Plus, how do we know that, if God exists, he's like the Bible says? Whether God exists and whether the Bible is true or not are two different arguments.

All religions are lame

-1

*Snorting laugher at DeathBySpoon* As for the YTMND, cruel but true. That poor "Exploits" guy had no idea what he was starting.

Faith sucks. 5'd

That is COMPLETELY irrelevant to the topic at hand. Yes, it's consistent, but that alone doesn't prove divine inspiration. A minor diety could have arranged something like that. Such a thing isn't unreasonable. Maybe some weaker, highly evolved being arranged it, put it in those peoples' heads (ever read Valis, by Philip K. Dick?). It/he/she wants people to believe it is all the things the Bible says about God, when that isn't true. It's a neat statistic to throw out at a party.

Oh, and downvoters should take a crash course in Logic 101: Those who make the affirmative statement have the burden of proof on their shoulders.

Whoops, I was responding to deathbyspoon, and ended up repeating what eliium said.

lol

I hate how the concept of a god gets mixed with the retarded christian cultists. There may be a god, may not, nobody knows or can know for sure. I'll believe there might be an overviewing spirit, but I'm not going to devote my life to it. Even worse, I'm not going to believe fairy tales about a certain diety making the earth out nothing then making man out of dirt. Thats just imbecile.

5 for ruthless truth!

peter guy, peter guy, peter guy, peter guy, peter guy, peter guy, peter guy, peter guy, peter guy,

"This site is actually very interesting as it doesn't say either side is truly right. While its true that the Christian here is using circular logic, the non-Christian (presumibly anyway, we Christians do get bothered by door-to-door Christians too...) is also very stubborn in his beliefs." You f*ckING moron - the non-Christian here is not expounding on any beleif system, ergo he is NOT being dogmatic! Quit thinking you're so bloody clever for attempting a Tu Quoque Fallacy!

I always thought believing in magical invisible people who lived in the sky got you on medication...

5'd for Reason

religion sucks!

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH. 5 from the Pastafarian that 1'd the FSM site on this.

5'd for pissing off the Christians.

Darwin! Darwin! Darwin!

-1

3 for "relious" tag

So pathetically true.

Could've been executed better, but I'm intellectually obligated to give it a 5.

I love this comments thread. I've never seen the word logic misused so many times. Brain-teaser for the masses: Is it not the height of ILLOGIC to take this simple textbook depiction of a real-world circular argument and ASSUME that the author has a certain set of religious beliefs, an agenda for posting the YTMND, an atheist outlook, or is attempting to disprove the existence of any number of religions or deities? As a matter of fact, you can't even be sure he isn't Christian.

how do you keep a retard busy

Excellent.

3 for old argument everyone's heard a hundred times.

LOL 5 because its true!!!!

the existence of a god has nothing to do with truthfulness of scripture, religious organizations or our need to determine how such a being acts. atheists and theists alike are just dumb these days.

List of people who need to search a logic textbook for "hasty generalization": ajamison, Smon, Paulie1980, malomeat, Ultrainer, SmapdiAge8, Ryuhkae, Geoocat, ClippenPentar..., OptimusPrime, nemankh, DeathbySpoon, GhettoGandalf. :P

@jaggerblade: You get a twinkie for the first intelligent comment made so far!

cite your music source

Pretty funny... but that's not the argument used in "Incredible Exploits of Nothing" to support Christianity at all. IEN is basically the 'argument from design' rather than blind faith or this circular reasoning.

If old-testament prophecies were fulfilled by Jesus by mere coincidence, the odds of it happening are lower than 1 in 100,000,000,000,000,000. I'm willing to give up my life for a Christ like that.

@agentanders: You can give up your life for magic beans for all I care.

pwned

-1

Austinr just got a spot on the list. Anderson, Jesus was Jewish. He was aware of all those prophecies. It couldn't have happened by coincidence unless he was unaware of them. Also, do odds really matter for things that only happen once? People always say the universe couldn't have formed by chance, but what does that mean? Odds are the chance of something happening AGAIN.

5'd for truth.

lol. look at all the stupid God believers who downvote this good YTMND. Stop believing in fairy tales and wake up and smell the coffee, christians.

"...Except for the fact that the Bible was written by over 40 different people in 3 different languages across 3 continents over a period of 1500 years, and there isn't a single contradiction. That's how we know it's God's word." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bible_contradictions

jaggerblade: What I considered a pun = (in your eyes) a hasty generalization? This YTMND should have been thrown into your comment box then.

For a lot of laypeople, religious ones included, the terms "reason" and "logic" mean "whatever feels right to me" as far as they're concerned. You get an idea of where their ideas come from with that in mind.

The truth? Its all lies, thats why he's covering his ass. If harry potter was written way back then, and people followed it? Itd be a gay religion like christianity.

I was only trying to be fair, Paulie. Puns and humor aside, you can't assume with perfect clarity that Scientology would "win" (win what?) just because a Christian in an example can't justify his beliefs with logic.

I got you. I should have said... So humor lost?

Maybe ;)

1'd because a discussion with any rational Christian will reveal much more than that tired old circular logic. A theology major, for instance. Like me.

Werbal... the man with the plan. I mean link to Wikipedia. Thanks man.

do people still argue this stuff on the tubes?

On second thought, 2'd because circular logic does make for a good YTMND. Just use a better topic next time. And less hate.

faith will be the death of us all. down with faith.

-1

What a bunch of narrowminded prick downvoters. I'm a christian and I thought this was funny, lighten up and learn to laugh and make fun of religion when it's on good terms.

Changed my vote to a 5, I was expecting the creator to just post and say "LOL GOD DOESNT EXIST IM ALWAYEZ RITE!". I hate religious zealots almost as much as I hate atheist zealots, it's just annoying when people try to force their opinion on everyone else because they think they're right. When in reality, no one really knows.

wow.. this makes me want to be catholic...

Amazing

anti-god ftw

God tells me to burn cats. NEDM

Ryu... I respected you more before you changed your vote. I thought you were foolish and wrong, but at least I respected you (a little).

1'd for "Relious"

So you proved circular logic in a hypothetical situation? What is the point of this? Am i supposed to pat you on the back and say 'way to go dude, you showed those hypothetical christians what for'. You bring nothing original or intellectual to the conversation on religion LET ALONE creationism vs evolution.

+1

beautiful

Where'd you get the song? 5'd the moment I get that song.

It's about faith, my friend, faith. If you want to believe in it, that's great and I applaud you for it. If not, that is your choice and nothing more. When you were created you were given the gift of volition, however you use it is up to you. When we all die we will face the choices we made while here. I can only pray that you find the happiness and joy I feel in Christ with him too. And, by the way, the "circular reasoning" you refer to is rather telling of your stance. May God bless your soul, my friend.

-1

lol, christian downvoters

Fun Fact: The Romans edited the original scriptures and passages of the Bible and burnt several books that would have contributed to Catholocism in order to use the motivational strength of faith to support their government way back when. Just something nice to know.

@klasky : Deep inside my heart I am crying because I didn't get your approval.

Upvote and you go to hell. im all for it.

I know, don't worry, you have many more chances to redeem yourself when you actually start making sites with a purpose instead of pandering to pseudo-intellectuals and high school theologians.

I have way too many friends that I've had this exact conversation with 50 times over. And this is a hilarious and excellent YTMND, nice going dude!

The loop on this is fantastic.

look at all the "smart" secularists... probably composed mostly of kids 13-18 trying to show "the idiots" how reasonable and intelligent they are.

Sabrams and gopackgo just joined the list. I'm not sure what to do with klasky. I'm still trying to figure out what the hell it means to "prove logic."

The bible isn't God's word. It's stories written by multiple authors written 50-60 years after Jesus' time. It is NOT divinely inspired. Please take a Theology class and learn some Greek to understand other things in the Bible before making yourself look stupid.

-1

First off, Im a Deist, so this is an impartial pov. Seccondly, I would like to point out that Christianity is not a bad religion (notice I said Christianity, not catholicism). Can you really find anything wrong with being thankful and doing nice things for others? Thought not. I have good friends who are christians. It's ultra-conservatives and the people who say all christians are ultra-conservatives that put a bad name on the whole religion. To be continued-

+1

HAHA! I didn't even notice this before. I LOVE this thread. "You f*ckING moron - the non-Christian here is not expounding on any beleif system, ergo he is NOT being dogmatic! Quit thinking you're so bloody clever for attempting a Tu Quoque Fallacy!" Tu Quoque is Latin for "You Also" and refers to an ad hominem retort to an ad hominem attack. I don't think the author did anything ad hominem to Prime. The only Tu Quoque would be to say that you think Prime's is ad hominem and responded "f*cking moron".

this whole page is filled with "christians" who dont know sh*t about their own religion, and people who only 5 because they are completely bent on hating christianity. NEITHER of which know anything about decent theological discussion. So im giving you a 2. +1 because you probably know all this and are using that to get page attention. -4 because you reminded me of how much i hate the masses.

The authors of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John aren't matthew, mark, luke, or john. They merely are just scribes. Not many people knew how to write back then. Scribes would hand-copy these to pass them down, and devout Christians would add certain things to the stories to make it look like Jesus did more. The Testimonium Flavianum is an excellent example of how a completely not-Biblically-related person had his words of Jesus twisted around years after his death in order to make Jesus look like Son of Man

-1

Instant 5! Pure Internets gold sir! Had the same convo w/ a co-worker 2 days ago, made me want to punch 'em in the face.

meh I assume believing in the bible is just the most logical choice when faced with evolution which has no proof of existence. I mean seriously when was the last time you saw something evolve?

"First off, Im a Deist, so this is an impartial pov." No, it isn't. "Secondly, I would like to point out that Christianity is not a bad religion (notice I said Christianity, not catholicism)." Nice ad hominem with no justification. "Can you really find anything wrong with being thankful and doing nice things for others?" And a beautiful oversimplification ftl.

I can go on and on about the bible on a scholarly level. Just FYI when you're reading the bible: 90% of the stories are meant to be taken symbolically. The creation story explains the nature of God, not how things were created. In fact, when translated from Greek, it says "In beginning..." but it is very controversal. Some translate it as "In THE beginning." Yes, that one word makes a huge difference. "In beginning" suggests that the earth was around already, and God was just starting to do his stuff

hahah wow, the truth~

"meh I assume believing in the bible is just the most logical choice when faced with evolution which has no proof of existence. I mean seriously when was the last time you saw something evolve?" Evolution, by definition, is slow progressive change over time. You don't watch it happen. Your knowledge of biology is atrocious, and you've set up a completely false dilemma if you think it's either evolution or the Bible. There are many more options.

Wildcrazymaniac, I have the answer... POKEMON!

^^ Agreed, POKEMANS!

I'm not religious, but i can't stand idiots who think they know what they are talking about.

-1

Actually, Stu, it says in *archae*, which denotes the "first principle". Greeks had a very specific use in mind for that, so the addition of THE there isn't so problematic.

Oh. Well my teacher is retarded then. He gave us a huge discussion over how controversial of an issue it was :p

God dammit, I'm sick of these stupid religious philosophy YTMNDs. But I guess I did just say "God dammit."

It probably is controversial. That's just my stance on the controversy. If your teacher can read Attic Greek he's far from retarded. Ever seen a manuscript? All caps and no spaces. :(

stop defaming my religion.

Whoops, it was someone different who mentioned Greek. I'm not sure about the Hebrew version of that. I know that 23% of the Old Testament is inconclusive because there are no vowels and scholars aren't terribly sure what the words are supposed to be (Yeah, that's right, the whole OT is reconstructed from context clues.). Also there are authorial discrepancies within 4 words of one another (3 people writing the same verse and such).

1 for "relious" in the keywords

sorry sir, CLOSE, but no cigar

this isnt defaming christianity, its defaming those *ssholes who cant even justify their own beliefs yet they feel they can wake people up (like me, who works nightshift) so they can blather on about something THEY dont even know that much about, telling me how i need to change my whole life around because they think a certain way about something

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doublethink ..is the act of holding two contradictory beliefs simultaneously and fervently believing both. According to the novel, doublethink is the power of holding two contradictory beliefs in one's mind simultaneously, and accepting both of them. ... To tell deliberate lies while genuinely believing in them, to forget any fact that has become inconvenient, and then, when it becomes necessary again, to draw it back from oblivion for just so long as it is needed

Most children's novels have no contradictions. Does that mean we live in a world of talking bunnies?

You know Orwellian inventions are classic, and all, but if you want the real-world version you should look up the psychological theory of Cognitive Dissonance. It's pretty similar and equally interesting.

And Midvalley slams into first place in the fallacy war. Childrens books aren't co-authored by people of widely varying ethnicity and ideology over a period of centuries. You fail at analogies.

and if you go to a christian concert, dont sit in the highest corner of the auditorium, because people will assume that you were made to go there against your will. not assuming that the speakers were turned up way too loud

I've been that guy on the left too many times....

Obviously it's because Jesus said it was hos father's words. YA HEAR THAT YA SWEATY BASTARDS! LOOK AT JESUS OVER THERE SPEAKING THE TRUTH! *Points at Jesus* *Jesus winks*

The reason the bible is written by so many people and is RELATIVELY consistant (though it is not) is because its contents were selected to be the one fixed set of books well after jesus's supposed death. All the bible ever was a "best of" of this divergent Jewish mythology.

Wow, religous people can really get into the nitty-gritty details. Just shows that there are geeks for everything. [not saying that in an offensive way. I'm a geek too :) ]

5'd because I like to piss of the religious.

Dude, Jaggerblade, settle down. It's just a YTMND. All Shoolz said was for people to make a retort if it was bad. You seem to be taking this very personally for no apparent reason. I mean, this isn't even yours, so why do you care so much? All I'm saying is just chill and go drink some more Koolaid there bud.

lul.

XENU LOVES US

Praise Hojo!

lol @ Jesus' supposed death. He's still wandering around with Elvis somewhere. Also, I probably single-handedly launched this into #1 on Top 15. w00t.

ok my problem with this. You have the background music from Andy Hunter. A christian electronic artist (shudder). Change it.

Lol, irony in the music!

I've watched all the YTMNDs on the front page and these comments are making me laugh more. I'm having a good time, and it has nothing to do with Koolaid (I don't even know what that is supposed to mean). Also, how am I taking it personally? I haven't said anything about myself yet.

Also, Jesus loves buffalo wings. Not sure how that is important but it might come up later.

Lol, okay there bud. Just making sure you weren't going crazy over a little old YTMND. It just kinda seems personal when you laugh at the very death of a man (be it if you believe in Him or not). Heh, maybe the Koolaid part will come to later in the night..

Not all people are like this...but it's still a funny YTMND. :)

Quote - wildcrazymar - "meh I assume believing in the bible is just the most logical choice when faced with evolution which has no proof of existence. I mean seriously when was the last time you saw something evolve?" http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2006/07/060714-evolution.html You Christians keep setting me up, and I keep knocking 'em down.

Wow, you found a link. Here's a cookie for the hard work that one required.

I wasn't laughing at him dying. I was laughing at "Jesus' supposed death" as if he hadn't died yet. That should affirm that I do believe that Jesus walked the earth and was a real person who died just like the rest of us do. Now whether or not I believe he was resurrected and deified... ;)

i don't know who asked about the hebrew translation, but here is a link with a decent commentary on the passage in genesis. http://www.chabad.org/library/article.asp?AID=8165&showrashi=true

"Wow, you found a link. Here's a cookie for the hard work that one required." I guess if more people used the Internet for, you know, learning about stuff we wouldn't have people still believing in big white bearded guys who fly around on clouds and use magic to solve the world's problems.

Too true.

Jesus is stll around today. He still hangs out at fast food places. He has an apartment somewhere. I think he delivers pizzas for a living.

That doesn't appear to be a very scholarly source, klasky. It does a very poor job of stringing together different parts of the Bible (that all have different authors) to explain why another yet different author made a word choice. It also doesn't go into good depth about the difference between "Elohim" and "YHWH".

Why can't science and God go hand-in-hand? Why can't god know organic chemistry?

@ Werbal - Find me a verse where He flies on clouds and I'll get you a plate of cookies. @Jagger - Believe what you like my friend. I support your right to believe anything you want to.

Maybe God was a high school kid and we are the result of an expirement.... I need sleep.

i like this

*science class expirement.

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=2&chapter=13&verse=21&version=31&context=verse *waits for cookies eagerly*

yeah, maybe well after..."jesus's supposed death" wasnt the best wording, how about, well after..."the year now commonly know as 1ad". i think it was like 200-300 ad, and who ever was in control of constatinople at the time really had control over what went into it, because he was commissioning a sh*t ton of leather bound copies.

Yeah, like I'd actually read that piece of sh*t book. If I want crappy fiction, I'll go read some Dean Koontz.

Then perhaps this might help. The commentator is question is Rashi, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rashi, as to its depth i do not disagree.

thanks for making this! I can't think of a better way to explain the merry-go-round ways of extremists.

1st problem: It's NIV, not KJ. That's more of a non-direct translation but due to your undying fervor for it, I'll give you that one. 2nd: That od refering to God, not Jesus Christ. Being God and the Son of God are two different things.

All of the people saying "Hooray for scientology" have the IQ of broccoli. Scientology doesn't believe in "Science" or "logic" they believe that some Space Alien is God. This is a really awesome response to that dumbass other one.

man, you best be lovin' god 'cause he's a-comin' an' when he git here, he gonna f*ck you up, ya hea'!

Werbalkint, I'll pray for you tonight. Just thought I'd let you know that. ^_~

Taken from the FSM hatemail page, right?

If undying fervor means "I like plates of cookies" then ok. You wanted a verse where God flies on clouds, and I gave you one. The KJV has more translation problems than the NIV and that's according to most theologians and ministers I've spoken to on the subject.

LOLZ ITS KEWL TO M

Someday we're all going to grow up and realize how painfully stupid it is, going on the offensive against things we can not comprehend, which others take sacred. Someday.

-1

"Except for the fact that the Bible was written by over 40 different people in 3 different languages across 3 continents over a period of 1500 years, and there isn't a single contradiction." - the modern Bible is selected documents by Constantine the Great, who turned away 80+ other gospels including the Dead Sea Scrolls that made Jesus look less divine. Jesus' divinity wasnt decided until 400 years after his death....

@agentenders: Or maybe Christ fulfilled old testament prophecies because he (and everyone who supported him) had read them prior to him being born? It's really easy to "fulfill" a prophecy you've read.

KJ version is bullsh*te It was translated around 1600 NOT with the intention of accuracy, but with its primary objective of being readable to common people of that time (which is largely why its still so widely read...its the bible for dummies) and they also decided to change a few things that good ol' king james wanted changed, cuz he was footing the bill

at the same time the many other versions of the bible that existed (and the other gospels) were to be burned, and anyone who would choose the other versions was deemed a heretic. Heresy comes from the Greek word "choice" as in, defying Constantine was the wrong one. But go ahead, believe the Bible is purely God and that its not a tool of control...

Keep at it. Unanswered prayers are hilarious.

+1

The beginning of that NIV verse (Ex. 13:21) "By day the LORD went ahead of them in a pillar of cloud" is rendered in KJV "And the LORD went before them by day in a pillar of a cloud". I want my damn cookies :(

and this circular reasoning is entirely accurate when it comes to many Christians. I've encountered it many times, especially among some of my own relatives. History and Science > Christianity

We got a 1 requesting clearance to land.

-1

sigh

isn't it strange that people who dont believe in the bible know more about its history than those who actually believe it? maybe because the people who STOP to learn about something before they dive in head first soon realize its a bunch of bullsh*t

@ Werbal, answered or not, it's the thought that counts. May God bless you.

well gobblock, its because most Christians become Christians before even reading the Bible... but like Scientology funny enough, they tell their followers all opposing views are lies by Satan, just as anti-Scientologists are the 2% evil of the world, Suppressive Persons...

I'm kinda religious. I mean, I'm by no means an athiest. Even so, this is funny. I'm not taking it personally or anything, it's just funny. And for those people that are going to try and do it, I say good luck. *ssholes that try to convert you deserve to be messed with.

The correct answer is faith.

-1

my last big beef I wanted to say is my main problem with Christians when it comes to debate is that you're either a Christian, or that there is no higher being, now or ever - I simply think its arrogant to think that in the vastness of the universe we have somehow figured it all out. we are all atheist or agnostic about 99% of historys religions, some of us go one percent further

This is what my mom would tell you pretty much word for word.

Sitsu wins. mattcruise: I have faith that Principia Mathematica was divinely inspired. Why not?

I love people who say Christianity is a "cruel" religion

I love people who say Islam is a "peaceful" one!

TRUTH TRUTH TRUTH TRUTH!

I like waffles too!

^Me too

To the people saying no contradictions in the bible: Wha?? I can name at least 10 off of the top of my head, and this site has a list of over 350. http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/contra/by_name.html

that is kind of strange how poly theism is pretty much dead in the western world. I mean, with all the crazy bullsh*t various religous sects spew out, im suprised no one has said that Jesus did battle with Xenu, and that the messianic age will come to an end when cthulu comes and takes control of gods mind, only to eventually be conquered by another one god of the moment

"I love people who say Christianity is a "cruel" religion" - religion is child abuse. you wouldnt call your child a liberal or conservative, they dont know better - but they are pushed into religion from the get-go, brainwashed into beliefs tehy are nowhere near old enough to comprehend.

If Christianity- Hell, any religion- is invalidated, what does a man hang on to then? There is no particular purpose in being; no reason for existing; no morals; no love; emotions merely are caused by a series of stimuli and responses; we are machines built of flesh rather than metal that are driven by subtle instinct and selfishness

If you're getting into discussions like this with Christians you're either a) talking to 12 year olds or b) talking to people who aren't really Christians. True Christians know what they believe and why.

now on top of all this. I think Jesus probably existed, was ahead of his time - a revolutionary. But divine? not a chance - these gospels were written in a time when people were even dumber than they are now, where cotton/poly blends were an abomination, as well as women speaking in church. Modern christians love to pick and choose what is 'symbolic' and what is literal to defend the indefensible.

A person who "brainwashes" with religion has been brainwashed themselves, not taught to think freely, nor teaching to think freely

OmniIcyshelf, what exactly is wrong with that? That's exactly how the world is, and the sooner people accept it, the better.

The sooner I accept it, the sooner I become a murderer.

If Christianity didnt have the selfish promise of heaven and the scare tactic of hell, it would never have succeeded. To you Omniiceshelf I say morals do not come from religion, there are very atheistic nations today that have little crime and a lot of respect for each other. Scandinavian countries are around 50 to 80 percent atheist, Japan around 65. the US is around 10 percent, and guess who's fighting wars?

"does a man hang on to then? There is no particular purpose in being; no reason for existing; no morals; no love; emotions merely are caused by a series of stimuli and responses; we are machines built of flesh rather than metal that are driven by subtle instinct and selfishness" um...no...you must really think all people are scum...how about we are social empathetic tribe based machines, we live to take care of each other, like really goddamn smart monkeys, we are programmed to form social groups

http://youtube.com/watch?v=gmNjfpoRZpE - Richard Dawkins owns you all.

also cocks

There is a difference between what the law defines as being counterproductive to societal function and what is defined by an absolute to be wrong. If there is no absolute as devised by man, why then should I adhere to anything save for my own sake?

well, i think absolutism is retarded. You remind me of the teacher in Donnie Darko, are you going to draw a line and make us only choose Fear and Love next?

I phrased that incorrectly - I should say, if man is the only factor defining the moral absolute, why is there any reason to adhere to it?

Top 15 and this is already a flamewar. haha... http://www.secularhumanism.org/index.php?section=library&page=pzuckerman_26_5

"If Christianity- Hell, any religion- is invalidated, what does a man hang on to then? There is no particular purpose in being; no reason for existing; no morals; no love; emotions merely are caused by a series of stimuli and responses; we are machines built of flesh rather than metal that are driven by subtle instinct and selfishness" Doesnt make god any more real. +emotions that make society survive, possibly from all the tribes that thought life was pointless dieing?

That article I posted a link to was written for Free Inquiry (the Secular Humanism Council's magazine, or one of them anyway) and it's called "Is Faith Good For Us?" Examines the difference between faithful nations and organic-atheist nations and knocks over the correlation between godlessness and poverty/war/hunger/you-name-it

that's really, really wonderful

but Omni, your point is moot since the Bible was written by men. the 'good and evil' absolutes are constantly corrupted by politicians and religious leaders. Absolutism gets planes flown into towers.

You could have simple morals based on the Golden Rule. Don't kill people because you don't want to be killed. You could not kill because you don't want to go to jail. You could just think it's wrong without any justification. Morality does not "simply come from God" even if you think that's the best-sounding way.