YTMND Search

 (3.00)

You still haven't proved God exists. It's equally plausible that space-time-matter came from nothingness, timelessness, etc as it is plausible that it came from some 'divine being.' It's only due to the nature of logic that we have such difficulty imagining something out of nothing. That's what makes your argument so compelling - b/c it makes logical sense. However, my point is that we must step outside the confines of logic in order to understand something out of nothing.

 (4.00)

I don't buy your arguement but you're smarted than the typical theist. I would counter simply that the jump from establishing that there is a first cause that is beyond time, space and other natural phenomenon to the statement that the first cause is god is not supported by your premises or your arguements. Why should that first cause be god and not something else? There is no evidence that first cause is sentient or omni-benevolent.

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Where do you counter the simple fact that "The first cause" might = Space/Time/Matter? OOOPS. You're entire arguement is this: Everything came to be from something, so it must be god. What created god? You squash THAT arguement by saying "God always is. He's the first cause" Wow, great arguement, einstein. I could say my left nut was the first cause. Your whole arguement is based on nothing.

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If a God created the universe from beyond space and time, then "he" should have no effect on our universe.

 (5.00)

5. We may not know anything outside of time space and matter but there is something responsible for our existance and that is God. Call it what you want, go as far back in time as you want but there is an ultimate power somewhere down the line and that is what we as human beings should call God. From a religious standpoint, putting your faith in an idea that cannot be proven (by proven I mean visible by in the spectrum that our human eyes can see or believable by modern logical thought) and worshiping (feeling fear and gratitude) it is part of what seperates us from the other species on earth. Some people don't worship or think of God as a being that created us but I think a basic belief in a higher power somewhere is essential to every great human mind.

 (2.00)

Stop the arguing for God's sake! This isn't even a true rebuttal at taking his argument, it's attempting to humiliate this guy with semi-science. If God is in the "supernatural" as he argued, then yes natural laws don't apply to him so he can pretty much do whatever he wants or whatever those laws are. In either way, there's blank space there which we cannot define and that's called "faith," not "proof." You forfeit, mediocre day sir!

 (5.00)

We can only try to figure things our as best we can as human beings. Whetman was trying to prove that God (creator of the universe) exists by using the best theories that we have. It's the best we can do. If someone says that the casuality theories cannot apply to outside space time and matter because we dont know anything outside space time and matter I say to them, "do you have a better theory?"

 (0.00)

Asserting that an entity called "god", which transcends space, time, and matter, was somehow the creator of space, time, and matter, is an inherent contradiction, because it would mean god does not reside in the knowable realm of space, time and matter, thus he himself is not knowable to us in the realm of space, time and matter, thus it is an assertion that one knows the unknowable, thus, the theory is invalid as inherently self-contradictory.

 (1.00)

it isn't very logical to assume that there was nothing prior to the big bang, because the observeable universe to you starts at a single point does not mean that there was something before it, you are basing your "logic" as to the nature of the universe from a point within and completely missing what is outside our 4th dimensional world (time+3 spatial dimensions) the growing acceptance of the birth of the universe being caused by the collision of 5th dimensional membranes or branes for short shows that there was no single point and that time existed prior to the big bang. your first cause wasn't god but a cosmic fender bender http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/astronomy/bigbang_alternative_010413-1.html

 (1.00)

You have proven that, according to scientific beliefs currently agreed upon, something outside of our current space, time, and matter trinity "caused" our universe. However, you have not proven that the cause of the universe is a conscious all knowing God. That's jumping to conclusions. There could very well be a physical process outside of out current space, time, and matter that served as the cause for our universe. According to String Theory, there probably is.

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 (4.00)

see anything except photons and our brain is bound to a certain electrochemical speed that dictates our passage through time as we know it. We are not aware of our own beginning or ending, much less the universes. Everything is relative. Space is relative to our size, time is relative to our speed through space, and existence is anything we define it as. Trying to prove the universe began through a philosophy that created science is not proof of creation. Seeing creation itself is the only proof of creation. Creation in itself is irrelevant to science because it cannot be proved or disproved and so is God. Therefore the two do not belong in the realm of fact and should be relegated to personal beliefs. It is non sequitor to say otherwise.

 (4.00)

Also "how can something exists outside time space and matter yet still effect time space and matter?" Is a good point. We cannot describe this 'God' beyond immaterial. If we cannot define this entity at all, appearance or ability, then it is impossible to label it and furthermore, pointless to argue, especially if you want to attach it to a religion.

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to all those who say whetstone fails because he claims something exists outside causality even though he uses causality as a reason: he merely says everything has a cause. each event and each thing in the universe was caused by something else... that means that SOMETHING had to simply be and not be caused by something else, and since we can prove the universe began.. which includes matter, space, and time.. something had to exist before that.. and something before that and so on until you finally get to something that always just was. look up aquinas's first 2 logical proofs of god's existance, the prime mover and the first cause argument

 (1.00)

LOL DjDTM, pure gold. Peterguy, your ytmnd has so many flaws its hard to start listing them. If you had took grade 8 science you would have known about atoms, particles, and life on earth being created. Everything started from a single, singularity. Not this magical invisible god creature (THAT HASN'T EVEN BEEN PROVED OR EVER SEEN, TO DATE.) SO, we have two choices here: 1)everything was created by some magical space wizard that just HAPPENED TO BE ALIVE BEFORE ANYTHING WAS CREATED (who came up with that idea?) OR 2)A singularity started the generation of the universe (more plausable idea) and a series of realistic events lead up to new creations and earth. Beliving in god is like beliving in scientology, both are fake scams to brainwash lesser individuals

 (1.00)

Listen to the other guy, who used actual logic to gun down your points. in every rebuttle he made you replied with silly things like "twisting my language make everything more dificult to comprehend." no, twisting your language doenst do that. it makes you look like a dumb sh*t because ytou dont know how to reply to it.. another thing you dont understand is that matter and space dont cause time, energy does, which in your arguement i believe you purposely left out. The cause of energy you are unable to explain. so there off, "God" you are unable to explain. the other guy owned you.

 (0.00)

Well it makes complete sense to me. I've had a similar theory, scientifically there is a God. The force that created the universe, being space, time, and matter. And like he said, the force that created those is not bound by what it created. So in a sense there is a God, a creator of the universe. But if so, who is to say that the force that created this is A) sentient or B) has a vast kindom with angles known as heaven (or whatever other religions use to define a god and his kindom). So in a sense, there is a God, but not in the same sense as religion uses to define a deity. So basically God, in theory, exists, but is not an all knowing, sentient, loving, caring being. At least it is unlikey so which boils down to a new wrapper for the same endlessarguement. The force is there, but is it God? You can say yes, it is god. Or just as easily you can say no, it is not god but rather, something new. A new scientific force yet to be defined.

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Just throwing it out there, General Relativity shows that Space and Time are intertwined to the point where they can be called the same entity (hence the usage of the word Spacetime). Of course it is altogether possible that God was the catalyst for the Big Bang, but as we understand physics today, it is impossible to really predict what happened at the big bang. At a level where matter is so infinitely dense as in the case of the beginning of the universe, the laws of General Relativity break down. Until a Unified theory of Quantum Gravity is created and generally verified, we wont know for sure what the universe began as. On a more related note, theres no use in asking what came before the universe anyway. Its like asking whats north of the north pole.

 (3.00)

Simple answer: God has always been. It is hard for a person to fathom something that has no beginning. The fact is, God created the dimension of time, therefore having existed before time, aka, never having an origin. God is. See you space cowboy.

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Interesting YTMND, and it has brought a lot of dirt in motion. I have a couple of questions and comments and I'll try to keep them as 'grown-up' as possible, since I've been known to get childish over said arguments, if it happens, I apologise. First of all, I'd like to ask if you know how much energy the universe contains and if you know the actual formulae for thermodynamics in space and time. I take it these formulae are on the site you referenced, I didn't take the time to look there yet, I might do it. The point of the question is how can you be so sure, if the universe was infinite, it should've ended before now? You simply cannot say this on the data we currently have. Also, if god didn't come into being he doesn't have a cause, right? (continues)

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So, why (not who) is god? in other words, what is his purpose? Does he HAVE a purpose? Next question: Does god exist in the frame of time, space and matter? Because if he doesn't, how do we 'get to him' (heaven)? Rephrase: Could you think of valid arguments for the (non)existence of a heaven or something alike? I shall refrain from voting until these questions are answered in some way. Thanks in advance for looking.

 (4.00)

Interesting, but at some point you talk about space time and [sic]manner. Go correct pl0x. Also @Ton: No, because faith has no foundations. In a way science has no foundation seeing as someone started by saying something like 1+1=2, but there is more science to prove that theory as there is anything proving the existence of a god. Basically that's cool, seeing as there needn't be any arguments for faith, but don't go loading that crap on others. I support this YTMND more that Whetstone's. I like the discussion though.

 (5.00)

btw I don't even consider this to have anything to do with religion (either bashing it or not), it's just funny because of the audio since it's what anyone would be thinking if they ran into God in space :P

 (5.00)

5 for god, 2001 Space Odyssey [sic?], and astronauts

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"Yes more or less, I only had enough space in the YTMND to show that God exists- without going really indepth into WHICH God exists and what exactly >>>His

 (5.00)

Thanks for not including religion into this YTMND. Also this YTMND proves the nonexistance of God. Why the hell would he waste so much space? XD

 (5.00)

Where is your God now! Theoretically if you can bend space then all those distances become irrelevant, go Hyperdrive lol.

 (1.00)

You know very little about quantum mechanics or any of the recent theories of the univere's mechanics. 1. Space and time aren't two different things 2. the beginning of time was a singularity- the laws of math and science do not apply to it. Black holes are the same way. ergo, you could also say that the universe was just a relly big black hole that exploded. 3. the uncertainty prinicple states in a roundabout way that god can't know everything. look it up. 4. I hated the scientology site too.