Pale Blue Dot (Continuation of the logic)
Created on: September 28th, 2006
Pale Blue Dot (Continuation of the logic)
Carrying out the logic http://palebluedot.ytmnd.com/
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<< 1 2 3 >>
September 28th, 2006
(-2)
It does matter if i kill someone or love them, its the differance between a life in jail, or a normal life.
June 24th, 2007
(0)
If you need the idea that there is a supreme being that controls everything that happens in the universe to keep from killing your kids, then you shouldn't have any.
June 24th, 2007
(0)
This from the man that stated "racism is wrong" how could it be wrong without a supreme being? LMAO I'd love to see you make any logical argument on equality. LMAO
December 4th, 2012
(0)
jail sucks...
January 13th, 2013
(0)
hey i watched this a little over a month ago lol
September 28th, 2006
(0)
lol, closemindedness.
September 28th, 2006
(0)
in the cosmic scheme of things the earth blowing up really is insignificant though..
September 28th, 2006
(0)
emo
September 28th, 2006
(0)
isn't the fact that we are alive significant, no matter how small we are?
September 28th, 2006
(0)
I think he has a major flaw in logic, that atheists simply because they dont belive they should form their lives around a fear of a fictional book, have no sense of right or wrong. Saying that because we do not believe in god, we are no better than murderers, rapists and nazis, simply because ....if we aren't religious, we must not belive in anything good.
September 28th, 2006
(0)
Star, there is no good or bad. WTF are you arguing that atheists can believe in anything good? WTF is good? It's a feeble, fabricated concept. Of course atheists are no better than murderers, neither are believers, they are all insignificant nothings on a small blue dot in the middle of nowhere. Face facts buddy.
September 28th, 2006
(0)
That's not an atheism, that's existentialism, silly!
September 28th, 2006
(0)
if this is supposed to be an argument for religion it kinda refutes itself anyhow, pointing out that in the vast nothingness of the universe, pretending that we're important, or meaningful is simply fooling ourselves, on either side of the moral/religious argument.
September 28th, 2006
(0)
"Face facts buddy." Okay then, friend... What is your honest opinion on wether the fact you were murdered or not? Not only you, but before you died, everything you enjoyed, everything you "loved" if you believe in sucha thing, was destroyed or brutaly murdered before your eyes, not only that, but you had only to say "Stop" and they would be spared and you would die slowly and painfully, and they would be free to live about their lives. You die either way, but would you choose to let them live and you die so
September 28th, 2006
(0)
-sooner, and in agony. or would you choose to prolong your life, if only for a few minutes, and let your loved ones suffer before you are killed in a similar fashion? Which would you choose? Do you really believe that their lives are meaningless and you, and they, will both die eventually, might as well be now? Please, tell me. I want your honest opinion, of which i am sure i will not get.
September 28th, 2006
(0)
Oh, and if i don't reply, it's because i've already stopped caring if you tell me or not and didn't bother to come back to this site to discover the answer.
September 28th, 2006
(0)
The decision I would make in such an occasion has no more meaning than the decision a caterpillar makes on which branch to crawn onto. What does my sight receptacles receiving the reflection of light of beings I am fond of being tortured and murdered have to do with anything? So what if it makes me feel bad seeing that. It's just chemical reactions my brain processes as a result of a few million years of evolution to help us function more efficiently as a species.
September 28th, 2006
(0)
I think I said it better, and with less words, greatevilbetty.
September 28th, 2006
(0)
Wow. Your athiest view is pretty damn cynical and dreary.
September 28th, 2006
(0)
LAWLS why are you guys getting so angry with reality? that you are all meaningless nothings, that go about meaningless lives? What's the big deal? You are weak minded, emotionally imprisoned, worker bees.
September 28th, 2006
(0)
Maximus, that is such a carebear hippiefest view of the pale blue dot. We must respect, blah blah. Who the @#$ says we must? The only thing we must do is whatever the hell we feel like. And if telling other people they are going to hell makes you happy, do it. If crying like a hippie when you see sites that tell other people they are going to hell makes you happy do it. That's all that matters. Screw everyone else.
September 28th, 2006
(0)
"you are all meaningless nothings, that go about meaningless lives?" Meaningless in a cosmic sense, yes. But we are not meaningless to the people around us that we care about. And THAT is what's important. You could look at it your way, but then suicide is probably the best path, because your life is inherently meaningless to not only the universe, but everthing and everyone in the universe, including those of us on good old planet Earth.
September 28th, 2006
(0)
You're emo. Also, I'm Atheist and really really don't live like that. Retard.
September 28th, 2006
(0)
This is a pretty half assed athiest parody, in all honesty.
September 28th, 2006
(0)
On some points i agree with you, on others i don't. just want you to know that i too believe that the universe is a big place, and should all the inhabitants of earth ceace to exist, the impact on the universe as a whole would microscopic if anything. Why should the universe care if 6 billion lives are snuffed out in an instant? As far as we know, there could be an infinite number of other such lives, all over the universe, and TRILLIONS of them are dying every moment. The impact it has is none. That i ag
September 28th, 2006
(0)
LMAO being important to the people around you is no more meaningful than being important to some mosquitos that feed off your blood. It's all fancy little concepts you come up with in your mind to pretend you mean anything.
September 28th, 2006
(0)
your point? that's not a refutation of the comments made.
September 28th, 2006
(0)
"It's all fancy little concepts you come up with in your mind to pretend you mean anything." Maybe so, but I'm sure as hell enjoying my life thats devoid of meaning.
September 28th, 2006
(0)
-agree with. What i disagree with is your easoning that, since nothing we do matters, if i murder my own children no one should care since the universe doesn't care. The REASON the universe doesn't care is because it's got so much bigger things to occupy it's time with, in the big scheme of things, it DOESN'T really matter. But it does matter to us. To me. To YOU, despite how you say otherwise. If it didn't really matter to you, you wouldn't be here trying to impose such beliefs apon us. You wouldn't give
September 28th, 2006
(0)
Well of course it would matter to you if you killed your own children. But that's only because you allow yourself to be ruled by emotions.
September 28th, 2006
(0)
-a damn if we cares, because it doesn't matter that we care. You DO care, you're just trying to act as though you don't. My life matters to me, because i matter to others, and they matter to other people, who are important to others, who also matter to more people, and more and more and more. We, as a race and planet, are all contected to eachother, if loosely, that the death of one person DOES change the whole planet, despite what you may believe. It may not be immediate, it may not even effect you, perso
September 28th, 2006
(0)
"But that's only because you allow yourself to be ruled by emotions." I like my emotions. Happiness is pretty sweet. You should try it sometime.
September 28th, 2006
(0)
Oh you do charity work? You should be given the emo award of teh century. For thinking you can make a difference, when nothing the human race does matters one iota anyways.
September 28th, 2006
(0)
-personally, but it will effect someone you know, or someone they know, or even further down the list. Indirectly everyone influences everyone else, so every person matters. You matter to me because should you die, i know that it will effect someone close to you, who is close to someone else, whom knows a friend of a relative of mine, therefore becoming indirectly relevant to me via that relative whom passes on the information to me during a family gathering. I hope you don't die in a fire.
September 28th, 2006
(0)
"For thinking you can make a difference, when nothing the human race does matters one iota anyways." Why did you make this YTMND? It's existance is dependent on this planet and the human race. By your logic, this YTMND is pointless, and doesn't matter one iota. So why make it? Perhaps because you are a tool.
September 28th, 2006
(0)
Without our emotions, what would we be? You are expressing emotions at this very minute, you feel emotions, does that mean you too are also ruled by them? My emotions rule me, because without emotion YTMND wouldn't exist, this conversation would never be happening, all the good things there are in the world would would have never existed had we had no emotion. Nothing the human race does matters, to the universe as a whole. Everything the human race does, matters immensely to the human race, and that is wh
September 28th, 2006
(0)
-what is important. Who gives a damn if the universe doesn't care about us? Well, we shouldn't care about it either, so even though nothing we do in our lives matters on the big scale, on the small scale it is the most important thing that could ever happen.
September 28th, 2006
(0)
Right to hurt others? Does a hyena have a "right" to steal a lions food? Rights are another feeble concept. The hyena steals the food because it's hungry. why should it care what the lion thinks of it? What makes you any more important than a lion?
September 28th, 2006
(0)
You are obviously emo in your posts. You resort to personal attacks. Why? Something is obviously getting to you. I far from 15 am I :P
September 28th, 2006
(0)
Ah.... MaximiusPryme, didn't you know that that is the time in every inernet boys life where they thing they are the absolute sh*t? I used to be that was as well, in fact i was worse, because i was more convincing and condensending.
May 14th, 2007
(0)
is that like half way between being a smart *ss and turning into liquid
September 28th, 2006
(0)
"You resort to personal attacks." "You should be given the emo award" "that is such a carebear hippiefest view" "You are weak minded, emotionally imprisoned, worker bees." By your definition you too are emo. Of course, i don't think you're emo, maybe depressed, but not emo. Emo's are full of f*ggotry, you're more along the lines of, "I know more than you therefore i'm better than you, so EAT SH*T AND DIE!"
September 28th, 2006
(0)
Now resorting to the teaming up? Love that maneuver. Because if we are going to be wrong, at least we will be wrong together. But get back to the entertainment. Tell me more how you construct your concept of self worth. Your friends care about you.... keep going...
September 28th, 2006
(0)
I'm actually enjoying this. I haven't held a debate is so long, it's refreashing.
September 28th, 2006
(0)
So the electronic signals that make up the minds of people you commune with are significant enough to mean what?
September 28th, 2006
(0)
I'm glad you are enjoying yourself. Maybe even someone as horrible and ghastly as I can give people meaning. :P
September 28th, 2006
(0)
"So the electronic signals that make up the minds of people you commune with are significant enough to mean what?" The electrical signals are meaningless. The information they convey on the other hand...
September 28th, 2006
(0)
" There is a difference between sacrifice, and being an *ssh*l*e. " Only in your limited mind my friend. But give me a medium. Give me a concrete source that you can base that statement on as fact.
September 28th, 2006
(0)
"Maybe even someone as horrible and ghastly as I can give people meaning." The only person you are giving meaning to with this YTMND is yourself.
September 28th, 2006
(0)
Exactly! Self worth! The universe has such a big perspective that it isn't bothered to think about us, just as we aren't bothered to think about the infinite numbers of bacteria and microcelled organisms that cover our planet. To ME, my life is important.Man exists before his existence has value or meaning. This value or meaning, and the value or meaning of the world around him, man defines himself in his own subjectivity, and wanders between choice, freedom, and existential angst.
September 28th, 2006
(0)
"Give me a concrete source that you can base that statement on as fact." I say the same to you.
September 28th, 2006
(0)
Concrete sources are meaningless. They are all contructs created by mankind to give worth to what he sees around him..etc...etc...
September 28th, 2006
(0)
The information they convey are no more significant than the bits of data traveling out and into your computer from the tubes and tubes of internets. That you give it significance is the only claim you can make. Just as a tiny ant sees the speck of dirt it is carrying for its home as significant. But is it REALLY significant? What we find is that "significance" itself is just a construct of our mind that has no footing in factual reality.
September 28th, 2006
(0)
See^^^ I called that one.
September 28th, 2006
(0)
Now you are starting to get it.
September 28th, 2006
(0)
"But is it REALLY significant?" Apon whose reality are you basing this on? My reality? Your reality? The ants reality? The universes reality? Every person lives in their own reality, what is real to one person isn't necessarily real to another. What is significant to me isn't the same to you, it's all about perspective and reality. Saying that nothing you do matters is only true within your reality.
September 28th, 2006
(0)
"Now you are starting to get it. " Not really. You're just becoming predictable.
September 28th, 2006
(0)
Maximus isn't though. He still is basing significance on his own opinions. Me killing another human, or a lion killing a zebra, it matters not what reason was behind it. That the organism doing the killing is satisfied with the results of its actions is all that really matters. If Indians peed on the corpses of the animals they killed and laughed at their slaughter it would make no difference. All that matters is what is, stop putting emotional meanings behind things.
September 28th, 2006
(0)
"All that matters is what is, stop putting emotional meanings behind things." All that has meaning is powered by emotion. So if something has no emotion, it has no meaning. You obviously feel emotions, therefor you have meaning.
September 28th, 2006
(0)
Emotion clouds perception. Biases knowledge. It's pointless.
September 28th, 2006
(0)
I lol'd. but seriously... while killing my kids may seem like it doesn't matter in light of the universe being so damn big, it sure does matter to me, and to the local police, and probably to my kids. As human beings we create a "social" universe. On a local level, in the time and space that I live, breath, and work... it means alot. This isn't just being "ruled by emotions"... but by our society... which includes religion, family, school, government, and websites like this one...
September 28th, 2006
(0)
If that human has more means to live wealthy than you, and you could take their life without being caught and gain the same means, there is plenty to accomplish for yourself.
September 28th, 2006
(0)
"If that human has more means to live wealthy than you, and you could take their life without being caught and gain the same means, there is plenty to accomplish for yourself." That doesn't make any damn sense. How does killing a person give you their means? I feel like I'm watching the Simpsons. Moe-"If I kill you, do I become you?"
September 28th, 2006
(0)
If the a lion kills a zebra to live, and by killing that zebra, he kills the only source of food for the offspring of the zebra it killed. Yes the offspring will find it pretty significant, however the offspring of the lion are gaining nutrition out of the deal. So how is that any different from a human stealing from another human? Sure one suffers, but the other gains, so it balances out. Of course we have to punish the aggressor if he is caught, in order to keep the peace.
September 28th, 2006
(0)
"Emotion clouds perception. Biases knowledge. It's pointless." "If that human has more means to live wealthy than you, and you could take their life without being caught and gain the same means, there is plenty to accomplish for yourself." Dear lord! Would you listen to your own contradictions? Do you even... Nevermind, i've had enough of this conversation. Congradulations, you won this argument/debate over the internet. You didn't succede in changing my perspectives on anything, only helped to reinforce th
September 28th, 2006
(0)
So if a lion kills another lion for trying to mount his lioness or for coming onto his marked territory, how is that for survival? It's about propagation of his DNA.
September 28th, 2006
(0)
-them. You win simply because of the fact that i have to go to sleep and no longer feel like debating. Good night. Congradulations of your victory. I wonder what smart-ass reply you will come up for this one? Maybe somehting to do with, "I was never trying to win anything" blah, blah, blah... Goodnight.
September 28th, 2006
(0)
I love reinforcing th
September 28th, 2006
(0)
I was never trying to win anything. blah blah
September 28th, 2006
(0)
"Well it should be society as a whole" No it should not. It should be every individual for themselves. What benefit do I get out of the greater good? So what if society is better off in 50 years when I wont be alive? You have fallen victim to the brainwashing of society, in order to benefit itself. Each man is his own universe. Make your own laws, live like you have no life left. Just don't get caught.
September 28th, 2006
(0)
"Just don't get caught." lol, you nub. that is liek, stupid. ur stuppd. dis YMNDT is stupid. go sumwere else and bitch, nub.
September 28th, 2006
(0)
No. I made palebluedot to try and convay how an atheist can see how insignificant all of our (flame) wars, fighting and selfishishness is - in the grand scheme of things. And then try to explain that it's that very sense of isolation that makes us what to protect each other, and our only pale blue dot we've ever known, despite not having a god.
September 28th, 2006
(0)
You sound like an angry teenager who hates the popular kids at his school and just read Nietzsche for the first time. I'm inclined to investigate psychologically. You say do whatever makes you happy, if killing a bunch of people makes you happy, do it. But a follow up question is why do some people have the impulse to kill a bunch and are made happy from that while the majority of people aren't. I'm sure you're going to say "OMG, secret conspiracy of society to make you feel false guilt when really...
September 28th, 2006
(0)
...you could shed that and be a superman" but I think that's a misperception. I think the only way someone is OK with killing others(other than something like war where there is great social pressure and justifications thrown at you to do things-and even there, there is a coarsening an traumatizing) is if they are psychologically screwed up from trauma. People who 'get what they need' psychologically, so to speak, don't WANT to do things like that even if they shed god, and any official morality.
September 28th, 2006
(0)
Perhaps the fact that you perceive things this way is more indicative of your own psychological state at the moment whether you're conscious of it or not, then it is of any greater truth you think you've arrived at in the face of 'stupid society that wants to control you'
September 28th, 2006
(0)
While I agree wholeheartedly that good is a point of view, I do think that we should do everything in our power to not harm things. Even if we're insignifigant to the rest of the universe, we still matter to each other. Make someone smile today. Give out a five or two. Tell someone that you care about them. Because really, just as much as good is a point of view, so is the concept of love and hate. And I've figured out my own definition for them both.
September 28th, 2006
(0)
And speaking of them, I also know what makes me happy, so I choose to spread the cheer around. So what if nothing we do matters to the rest of the universe. I don't believe in any god, but I do believe that so long as I've made a difference to someone, I'll at least live a bit longer in their mind than I live on Earth. It doesn't matter to me how, where, or when I die, what matters to me most is that I'm able to spread any and all happiness I feel. So here's a 5, I hope it makes you happy to get it.
September 28th, 2006
(-1)
and if a 55 ft. bonfire fell over and killed a bunch of drunken rednecks... yawn.
September 28th, 2006
(0)
Grasping for meaning, is funneh. Keep it up.
September 28th, 2006
(0)
It was taller than 55ft wasn't it?
September 28th, 2006
(0)
Snerk, if I was "screwed up psychologically" in YOUR view and found all the most joy in life from putting a shoe on my head, or from burying people in the ground, what difference does it make if it falls into line with the psychology of the rest of the world? Who get's the standard for you to judge me on? If I pursue happiness through such means, and achieve it, I am just as successful at life as anyone else.
September 28th, 2006
(0)
Ooops, sorry. missed the point. Try again. Consider the photograph. Consider how far away it was taken. Consider how far humanity has yet to go. If we all blow up, sure it was all for naught. If we travel the stars, however... The universe is not ours, as the religious folks like to say. And there is morality outside of imaginary deities.
September 28th, 2006
(0)
Morality is what you make it. And there is no way to refute anyone's own morality. Because you and someone else agree it's immoral to kill another doesn't make it so my friend. As I say, each person is their own universe. You have no monopoly on morality.
September 28th, 2006
(0)
I guess the score of 1.75 pretty much says something
September 28th, 2006
(0)
No
September 28th, 2006
(0)
I think the idea is that it's okay to do whatever you want so long as it doesn't keep someone else from doing what they want, too. So killing someone is wrong because it keeps someone else from living. Most people would be willing to bet that that person wanted to do something with their life other than dying. And to the comment claiming this is existentialism, it's not. It's nihilism. Existentialism states that we exist, but we are not given a purpose. We, individually, have to give life purpose.
September 28th, 2006
(0)
Thank you for that revelation. Now, please excuse me while I go kill some children.
September 28th, 2006
(0)
I wouldnt want to live a lie and follow a god around like a blind sheep. Thats happiness. also Mother Teresa and Adolph Hitler shared many similarities. Although one looked "good" and the other looked "bad". They still followed the same "God" and both desired more power. Whether it was money or total dominance of the world.
September 28th, 2006
(0)
Wow this sounds like a cry for help. You sound afraid. It seems like your outlook on the world is so pessimistic that there must be a God.
September 28th, 2006
(0)
Gotta love the underlying pessimism behind Christianity. "Life is meaningless and worthless, so to give it value there MUST be an afterlife." "The universe is so evil and terrible that there must be a God to make it all better." "People are so innately evil that the only thing that keeps them from being utterly evil is belief in God"
September 28th, 2006
(0)
"It seems like your outlook on the world is so pessimistic " How is it pessimistic? Why is it bad to realize that good and bad, right and wrong are all contrived concepts of a insignificant species of mammals on an insignificant planet in an insignificant solar system? Seems to me it can be optimism. No matter how anyone lives their life, no matter how many people they hurt, all that matters is what each person believes. If they believe they did right, it matters not what anyone else thinks.
September 28th, 2006
(0)
And so begins the ytmnd holy war.... :P *continues eating an orange.*
September 28th, 2006
(0)
Again, it's only "right" or "good" if it doesn't infringe upon other peoples' right to do what they want as well. Because why are your (that's a general "your"; not talking specificially about you) actions any more important than someone else's? Doesn't that contradict your (that's a specific "your") entire theory? And I don't mean "How would you feel if the child you shot killed you instead?", I mean that by killing said child, you have taken away his freedom the same way he'd take away yours if he'd shot
September 28th, 2006
(0)
(cont'd) you. It's not a question of "How does X make you feel" or "What do you think about Y". It's simply that we only are what we know. And all we know is Earth. And we're all stuck here on Earth. So again I ask, why is one person's action or opinion more valuable than another's?
September 28th, 2006
(0)
Those are social constructs so as to make our society the most efficient, fair society we can for each inhabitant. It's more or less an agreement that we all benefit from. But we are talking principle here. Morality goes no further than the mind that defines it. No on is right. There is no right. There only is. So if enslaving a race of people and building your wealth makes you happy, all you are doing is violating the common agreement most humans have bowed to. In the end, you are as right as anyone else.
September 28th, 2006
(0)
But I am talking about principle. The principle is that by enslaving that race, you've left them devoid of the ability to...say, do the same thing to another race. So, no, there is no "right", I'm not here to contest that point. Right is what you, either as an individual or a society, make it. But there is most certainly a wrong. The only wrong is to keep others from fulfilling what they define as right. So by that theory, yes, stopping Hitler would be wrong. But Hitler would have been wrong to stop other
September 28th, 2006
(0)
(cont'd) people from doing what they want, so at that point it just becomes a battle between what's the worst of the two evils. Not to mention that Hitler also brainwashed millions of his own people to believe what he did, but that's beside the point. Basically, "right" is what you make it, wrong is stopping others from achieving what they percieve as right.
September 28th, 2006
(0)
Wrong is thinking that you have a monopoly on the term "wrong". It's not "wrong" to stop others. Not if the person doing it doesn't think it's wrong. You are imposing your concept of "fair" and saying that it's morality. Who made you a god?
September 28th, 2006
(0)
perfect, and true. You win.
September 28th, 2006
(0)
I could easily ask you the same question. "Not if the person doing it doesn't think it's wrong"? That would mean you're valuing one person's opinion more than another's, which violates your entire theory.
September 28th, 2006
(0)
I'm not saying the guy is right. I'm saying that right and wrong go no further than our own minds. Everything else is simply trying to impose one's beliefs.
September 28th, 2006
(0)
Texaaggie your flawed as hell. if you didnt give a f*ck about anything like u said you dont, you would have sponsored this ytmnd with all the money you had. Also, have you ever ejaculated? Thats a good feeling, I'd like to see one person tell me that isn't a good feeling.
September 28th, 2006
(0)
Wow if I could 5 a comment it would be yours rollon. Ejaculation proves that we matter.
September 28th, 2006
(0)
You're right, the universe doesn't care about what happens there. The universe isn't human. Humans, whether you like it or not, are ruled by emotions. Except for psycopaths, who physically cannot feel remorse, social pressure, or other emotions. You should be grateful that you get to ask these questions. If there is one thing humans experiance that no other living thing on the planet does it is there own insignificance, empathy for others, and awe at the world around them. If a god helps you achieve that,
September 28th, 2006
(0)
so be it.
September 28th, 2006
(0)
Zero knowledge of secular humanism/ secular ethics= phail.
September 28th, 2006
(0)
lol, blatant fallacy.
September 28th, 2006
(0)
Also I like the "could give a damn of our existence". No, it can't. The universe doesn't have the cognitive ability to give a damn.
September 28th, 2006
(0)
Also bonus points for completely confusing morality and ethics! Go team!
September 28th, 2006
(0)
Valid point though in saying that our lives are meaningless in a general context. Very few people would disagree with you. Christians had better not disagree with you or they might be putting themselves ahead of God and then they'll burn in hell.
September 28th, 2006
(0)
You also need to look into some philosophy before you try to dive in head first. Your arguments are below a philosophy 101 level. Also, in response to your "we can do whatever we want" etc. etc. you're forgetting the psychological constructs which do in fact exist and the entire concept of game theory. You lose. Good day sir.
September 28th, 2006
(0)
Also I'll agree to all your arguments about morality being a construct of the mind and in the grand scheme that everything we do is insignificant. Doesn't really matter. The insignificance of life is actually the basis for all existentialist arguments for the importance of life. We are alive (fact). We will die (fact). Everything that we feel matters to us in fact matters to us. It's a self-evident subjectivist claim. Subjectivist value has no objective value. That doesn't mean it has no value.
September 28th, 2006
(0)
Also, don't contradict yourself. "If they believe they did right, it matters not what anyone else thinks." It doesn't matter if they believe they did right, in the grand scheme. In the subjective localized reality, if it is all that matters to them then it is all that matters to them, but you can't make a subjectivist claim for someone else. "Doing right" may be completely tangent to their actual subjective beliefs of what is best or most important.
September 28th, 2006
(0)
LAWL, there is no "best" or "most important". The most important is self interest. Everyone should do whatever it takes to benefit themselves. There is no collective good. There is only individual good, therefor it is self defining. You feel bad when you kill someone because our brainwashed society has conditioned you to that concept from birth. All of it is conditioning.
September 28th, 2006
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People fear what they cannot control and define in a box. This entire thread is pretty much cries of fear.
September 28th, 2006
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This is going to be downvoted straight to hell, so I'm 5-ing it. Thank you for revealing the way Lave and others like him truly think. As a Christian, I look at the fact that we're a tiny speck in the universe and think that it makes no rational sense for us to exist; that only a truly powerful, eternal, and loving God could give such an insignificant speck such significance. Where atheists find despair and misery, I find hope and joy.
September 28th, 2006
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The views I am expressing on this thread Kangaroo are those of a truly non- religious person. Everyone that has so far posted has shown themselves to be religious. They just have different things they worship or believe. All however requiring faith. I have yet to ever meet a person truly without a religion.
September 28th, 2006
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you fail at logic
September 28th, 2006
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"The views I am expressing on this thread Kangaroo are those of a truly non- religious person. Everyone that has so far posted has shown themselves to be religious. They just have different things they worship or believe. All however requiring faith. I have yet to ever meet a person truly without a religion." Obviously they're not those of a truly non-religious person because you can't identify who that person is. I am truly non-religious and these are not my views, and I doubt you can provide one.
September 28th, 2006
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You stereotype, Texaggie. You don't seem to understand what an athiest really is. An athiest is simply somebody who belives there is no god. You don't have to have religion to be a good person, just look at me. Yes, there are some athiests who belive all that crap you just spewed, but if all athiests truly belived this, they would have died out a long, long time ago.
September 28th, 2006
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A basic principle of economics (which doesn't just apply to money): An object can only be valuable if it is scarce. If you have everlasting life, life is not important. See: Terrorists. If life is scarce, then life can have value. Since value is purely subjective, and in order to have the cognitive faculties to assign value you must be alive, it is safe to assume that life has value to anyone who does not believe in everlasting life and has any concept of value at all.
September 28th, 2006
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Also, what the hell are you trying to prove? If you're trying to convince someone 'your' athiests that they are wrong, they wont give a sh*t. They decide if they are right or wrong.
September 28th, 2006
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Game theory can account for the reason people don't go out and kill people etc. They place value on life, they realize the consequences of their actions, the game does not have a definite end, therefore they play the game. When people know that they have a short time left to live, they do "crazy things" which are, in reality, very rational things. If everyone followed your "kill everyone if I wanted to" principle, then those societies would all die in a short time.
September 28th, 2006
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Also, your "everyone has their own religion" style comment sounds very much like Nietzsche. He believed that all institutions requiring faith were devoid of all meaning and yet he didn't run around killing everyone. You're crossing psychological and economical and philosophical fields all in a matter of sentences, and in order to refute your idiocy it would take much more involvement than anyone here is willing to invest, but I've given a few stepping stones and they can continue if they'd like.
September 28th, 2006
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Just because your assertions take complicated answers doesn't mean that your points are valid, either. I haven't even addressed most of your fallacies because they're your weak points and that wouldn't really hinder your arguments. Life is complicated. Get used to it. One little ytmnd can't explain the entire scope of secular thought. Secular is the word you are looking for, not atheism. Secular.
September 28th, 2006
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I actually wasn't replying to you, Korf, I meant to add something to my first comment.
September 28th, 2006
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mine was just general commentary... not aimed as a response to yours.
September 28th, 2006
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Wasn't trying to prove anything. I just wanted a giggle. It's fun to see so called "atheists" try to convince themselves that they are not religious. Just because they don't believe in the same god others do, they still have unproven beliefs that they hold true to, out of a desire to give themselves meaning. You say you don't believe in God, but posters above write hillarious posts how they still try to live a good life, or live on in other peoples minds. But go on and tell yourselves your not religious.
September 28th, 2006
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Hmm, made me think a lot, very deep here. We might be small on a cosmic scale, but we are still here, so someone out there loves us. Win.
September 29th, 2006
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Tex: if atheism is a religion, then baldness is a hair color.
September 29th, 2006
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It is interesting how many people get so riled up over the "lol, religion" and "lol, atheism" debates that are wracking YTMND nowadays. While you have an interesting point to make, you go about it very heavyhandedly, and not really a way befit of intelligent discussion (My god, do I have the right site?! ). Was going to give you a 3, but this IS completely 100% unoriginal. Yes, I understand that it has to be that way to truely be a counter, but you didn't work very hard at it. Meh...I will up it to a 3
September 29th, 2006
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pwning atheists with their own logic, you win! Chichiri: If atheism isn't a religion, then black isn't a color lol.
September 29th, 2006
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I wouldn't call atheists "religious," but it certainly takes a lot of faith for somebody to not have any faith at all. In that respect, atheists can be among the most faithful people around. Science tends to be their "faith," which is a very limited reality on its own.
September 29th, 2006
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"Just don't claim that god is necessary for everyone, no matter what you're taught to believe ( in other words brainwashed) atheist can be happy too" Not believing in something that many people believe in (for example, atheism) is NOT the same thing as not being brainwashed.
September 29th, 2006
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That's not Atheism, you offensive f*ck. Atheism is not believing in a divine power. Not "Nothing matters because there's no law so everything is pointless". That's Exististentalism. Also, chek ur grammerz, lolz!!`!1~!! You've also said something about Atheists not being religious. Atheism IS a religion. There are a bunch of religions that don't center around a belief in a higher power. And you've also said something about stuff people can't prove.
September 29th, 2006
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Also, you've said something about how Atheist have no proof that God doesn't exist. Well, show me undeniable proof that God DOES exist. Other than the example that someone wrote a book of stories.
September 29th, 2006
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Um... go back to ur homework lil guy.
September 29th, 2006
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wow. awesome. all you haters are plain retarded.
September 29th, 2006
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I wish I were big.
September 29th, 2006
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A single dot in the sky is insignificant. A million dots in the sky form a picture. Our dot may become a picture one day. Why not strive towards that goal?
September 29th, 2006
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um yeah... you should buy a copy of "Horton Hears a Who!" it might help.
September 29th, 2006
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also " a person's a person, no matter how small" - Theodor Seuss Geisel
September 30th, 2006
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I lol'ed
September 30th, 2006
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GG at most people missing the point. GG also in there's no point in arguing about this, I'm gonna go browse the internets some more, need to do something to the kill the time until I die.
October 1st, 2006
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You don't have to be religious to believe in 'good'. Just because someone is an atheist, that doesn't mean they can't believe in 'good'. Just because someone is an atheist, that doesn't mean they think that Earth and all life on it is insignificant. I'm sorry, but this fails.
October 1st, 2006
(-1)
If there isn't a God, or creator, then there can be no good. Only what each person defines as good for themselves. Sure, you can "believe" in good, but that would be no more of a fairytale than what you claim believers in a God believe in.
October 1st, 2006
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hahaha. Couldn't stand out in the torrent of comments of the other one so you had to make your point here? I'll bite. It's pretty self-important to say that we know everything there is to know about the nature of existence. As such, I would classify myself as agnostic, although I enjoy learning about a variety of different religious and philosophical beliefs if only for the comfort they provide.
October 1st, 2006
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Everything is pointless? Not exactly. It is true that good and evil are relative to the cultures they were born in. But there are certain universal biological principles at work. The ultimate goal of our species is to reproduce and adapt and ensure the survival of our own gene pool. We kill people, yes, but not our own kin. Even cannibals watch out for each other because they know that there is strength in numbers. We won't dispose of things that are beneficial to us.
October 1st, 2006
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That summarizes good and evil in a 4-line nutshell. I see your main point being pointlessness. It is a similar view that Buddhists have. The universe is impermanent, and people suffer when they try to create permanence in a world that cannot be so. If you truly believed that life was completely pointless, you'd have offed yourself a long time ago. But you haven't. As a psychologist I am forced to recognize that the mind is dependent on the infinte complexities of the physical processes of the brain.
October 1st, 2006
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However, I ENJOY mental satisfaction. I enjoy overcomming obstacles and bettering myself. I enjoy life. This enjoyment is worth more to me than nonexistance. Perhaps I will even be able to taste a small bit of what the universe's purpose really is. Those that focus on death and the afterlife tend to miss out on this life here and now, and that is the point aethiests try to convey.
October 1st, 2006
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That's the hedonistic view. If everything is pointless, then why not have as much FUN as possible? Social contracts exist so that we can live by the golden rule of "do unto others as you would have them do to you." What benefits the group DOES benefit you. A group of like-minded people can pool their resources in ways that an individual can't.
October 1st, 2006
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QUOTE: "You feel bad when you kill someone because our brainwashed society has conditioned you to that concept from birth." ...not exactly. There was a study done on infant monkeys that were given two fake mother monkey dolls. One gave milk, and the other one was furry. The monkey would eat from the milk monkey, but it would spend most of its time cuddling with the furry mom. This pointed towards love being hardwired from birth and not conditioned.
October 1st, 2006
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To wrap it all up, hedonism is only one perceived purpose of existance. Another view is that we exist to find the answers. We exist to see how far we can push the envelope. Our purpose is the abstract concept of finding spiritual satisfaction. People quickly buy into specific religions because we fear freedom. If we are truly free, then we have to blame ourselves for everything.
October 1st, 2006
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Dude, you really should watch "I
(0)
'Atheistic view' what a load of crap. I can't believe how prejudiced you are against atheists with this. Where do you get this idea?
October 1st, 2006
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I didn't say all atheists believe this. I said any atheist that actually has the intelligence to carry out the only conclusion one can draw from the most freak accident to ever occur in the universe. Our planet.
October 1st, 2006
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Meh. I was going to say you should watch I Heart Huckabees if you haven't yet. You think that Earth is really the single most special planet IN THE ENTIRE UNIVERSE? Woah. And I thought the religious people were suppossed to be egocentric. Well I guess that when you believe humans are the highest level of consciousness in our universe (atheism holds there is no higher power), then I guess it is only natural to conclude that we know everything there is to know and that life is pointless.
October 1st, 2006
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I mean, we can only observe the 8 planets in our solar system (lole pluto) amongst the trillions in just our galaxy alone, and we're not even sure if Mars has traces of life on it or not. Do you think that's air you're breathing?
October 1st, 2006
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Futhermore, until you have read the works of some of humanities most reknown philosophers, I hardly think that you are qualified to make bold assertations about the meaninglessness of existance.
October 1st, 2006
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Buddy, your over exerting yourself. It can only be opinion. Meaning, without a creator, can only derive from one self. There is no standard, in that case, and all is rendered meaningless, except for one's own perception.
October 1st, 2006
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i shot my kids now what?
October 1st, 2006
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Now you can get caught, go to jail for the rest of your life. Or book it over to some 3rd world country and work towards ending sickness and poverty. Either way, they both end you up dead. It matters not one iota what you do now.
October 1st, 2006
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What if I have more kids? I want to shoot them as well. Any advice is greatly appreciated, I really like your ytmnd. THANKS! :)
October 1st, 2006
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I don't know where to begin. 1.) You took a good site, and completely spun it off into complete sh*t (LoL Fox!). 2.) You self sponsored it to get views, partially because you know it can't stand on its own. 3.) You completely fail at philosophy. 4.) I would continue this lis of various other reasons this YTMND fails and you how you fail for creating it but there's a rerun of Family Guy on and I haven't done my math homework.
October 1st, 2006
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you guyes, quit fighting, silly boyes :D
October 2nd, 2006
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Good and evil can be narrowed down to one simple concept: Will an action (or inaction) i am about to undertake hurt another? yes? bad. no? good. Good and evil is not a fabricated concept. if everyone followed your logic, you would not have a computer to be writing that nonsense on. hell, your parents would have said "hey, i dont need another kid" and choked you with your own umbilical cord after birth. What the original pale blue dot was getting at, and the point you missed so completly... next comment...
October 2nd, 2006
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we only have this place, and running around shooting each other wont make it a better one. simple as that.
October 2nd, 2006
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You're amazing at completely missing the point, are you?
October 2nd, 2006
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Atheisim != Nihilisim, buddy. Being really small dosn't make you not a sentient being. Sorry, you fail. By the way, you should go out and kill people, since God clearly dosn't care enough to intervine, and therefore you're insignifigant and nothing. You're going to burn for all eternity either way, after all!
October 3rd, 2006
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Haha, don't hate him! He's only human, after all.
October 3rd, 2006
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I can shoot your whole argument down with 1 word: Potential. Although our world is a pale blue dot in a universe that would indeed be ambivilent to it's destruction, there is the POTENTIAL that some day our species could advance to the point to actually make a larger impact on the universe. You can believe in human potential without believing in god. You can believe that a group of people are more than the sum of their parts without believing the reason for this is because has anything to do with god. :)
October 3rd, 2006
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If humanity ends itself because of the facts then so be it, just another form of natural selection. The Universe is indifferent to the concept of good and evil but good is essential to the survival of the species. Those who can comprehend this do not need an invisible diety telling them the moral choice. You have completely warped the idea.
October 3rd, 2006
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What's that I smell???? Ego? Pride? Pretentiousness? superciliousness even?? Or just blindness methinks.
October 3rd, 2006
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i f*cking love your antisocial ass
October 4th, 2006
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Pointing to the vastness of the universe to support moral nihilism is the ethical equilivent of dividing by zero. You can stomp your feet and shout that my ethical decisions are equilivent to religious faith all you want but that does not make it true. Demanding meaningfulness on the scale of the universe to justify human scale ethics may be convienent for your rhetorical purposes, but it is not reasonable. For additional information see: Utilitarianism.
October 4th, 2006
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You're automatically assuming that there is no meaning to life or what we do here, which is illogical. Thusly, your argument collapses.
October 4th, 2006
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Also, assuming that our size is directly proportional to our significance is also illogical. Take a peek at atoms. They are incredibly tiny. As a matter of fact, if all the atoms composing the empire state building stop "spinning," per se, they would all fit on a grain of table salt. According to your logic, because of how small they are, they are insignificant, which is technically untrue, for without them, the universe as we know it would not exist and there wouldn't be any way to determine...
October 4th, 2006
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what is and isn't significant. Actually, building on that, I feel that our very ability to determine whether or not we are significant makes us at least partly significant, for we are a rare anomaly in the universe that actually possesses comprehensive thought process.
October 4th, 2006
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Give it up, jeez. Atoms compose every piece of matter. Without a creator, we have no purpose but to die. Stop making yourself so damn self important. You people simply cannot allow yourself to believe that you owe your existence to a greater being than yourself. So you ignore the absolute joke it is to think that life just farted itself out of spinning particles that came together on a planet that happened to be the perfect distance from a star that happened to even exist in insurmountable odds that....
October 4th, 2006
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If i believed you were sincere and if this was almost any other site then YTMND i would 5 this, since it is somthing that deserves to be discussed. However YTMND is possibly the worst place to try to discuss such things and you are obviously not sincere, therefore: 1
October 4th, 2006
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matter even exists as it does with the unstable unpredictable states that exist on the quantum level. But you keep denying it if it helps you feel better about yourself.
October 4th, 2006
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I never said I didn't believe in a creator. I just find that people respond better when you argue with them on a level they want to argue on. If I started throwing religious stuff around, I know that I would be regarded as foolish, illogical, stupid, et cetera, so I decided to try to communicate to you on a level that would at least have me heard.
October 4th, 2006
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Well what do you have to argue with me about? This YTMND is simply about finishing out the logical pattern of one who refuses to believe in a creator.
October 4th, 2006
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Well, until a while ago I thought you were attempting to be entirely sincere about this, which I now think isn't entirely the case.
October 4th, 2006
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The truly selfish atheist standard by which all things are judged is life, one's own healthy survival. Values are created in order to rank the factors that determine a healthy survival. Noone else's values matters more than your own, certainly not the values of some collective, or of an anonymous yet somehow personified universe. To inflict undue harm upon others for one's own gain is to betray the standard of life itself and invite the same treatment.
October 4th, 2006
(0)
Similarly, to give indiscriminately is to expect others to sacrifice themselves in return. Both behaviors are anti-life. Fair trade, an extension of natural selection, is the only natural and healthy system in which humans may interact. Again, the only meaning, the only standard that exists and truly matters to anyone is their own, however flawed it may be. The point, the very essence of humanity and what many people articulate in the form of deities, is the constant pursuit of improvement.
October 4th, 2006
(0)
What happens in 99.999...% of the universe does not matter. Half the galaxy could be eradicated and it wouldn't make a difference. The only thing that matters is the world you are part of, the one that's around you. Considering that you have no effect just because you are too small is the same as considering yourself worthless (which you might be). I'm assuming that everything you wrote is to be sarcastic, or to get fun out of reading hate comments. I'm still giving you 1 star
October 4th, 2006
(0)
Iíd like to think Iím getting the point here. which is that comparatively to the universe we are insignificant as are everything we do. this is true, how can a big black nothing care about us? it can't cuz it's nothing, just a big empty void. the aspects of caring, good and evil, and the like are our own. so no from the stand point of the universal it doesnít matter, however the universe is empty space and dirt. as a side note it's funny how atheist don't care is bad but to atheist saying love ppl is to
October 4th, 2006
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5'ed, and very respectively Favorited. Thank you Texaggie. I have not heard more cold-cut wisdom in my life. True wisdom.
October 4th, 2006
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"Demanding meaningfulness on the scale of the universe to justify human scale ethics may be convienent for your rhetorical purposes, but it is not reasonable." -QFT.
October 4th, 2006
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okay, i just killed my kids, now what... :( HAHAHAHAHAHA, but seriously, we have as much free will as a laser beam pointed into the sky.
October 4th, 2006
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Umm, that sounded more like Nihilism. Also sucked ass.
October 4th, 2006
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Your totaly right man. As vast as the universe is, other life is undoutably out there. but We'll never find it. The distance between galaxies, uncrossable. And further, are there larger mesurements of space? Could this be one universe of many? But anyho. People just need to get off their fears and just LIVE. You only live once, so live it to the fullest.
October 4th, 2006
(0)
Somehow that's not quite what I think he was trying to say.....
October 4th, 2006
(0)
I knew what you were saying
October 4th, 2006
(0)
: (
October 4th, 2006
(0)
"If there isn't a God, or creator, then there can be no good." Wrong. "Only what each person defines as good for themselves." Well, 99% of all people agree on a common good whether or not a God or creator created that good, so your logic just got shot to hell.
October 4th, 2006
(0)
So, by your logic, if 99% of the populace agreed that raping and killing babies was good, it, therefor, would be proven as good?
October 4th, 2006
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*a common definition of what 'good' is. People can decide what good is and decide to be good without a god telling them so. Your logic is that a god tells us what good is, and to be good. Well, humans can ALSO collectively decide on one definition of good, and that we should be good. This is why most people agree that lying, cheating, stealing, and other 'bad' things are 'bad', and not good. Massive fail.
October 4th, 2006
(0)
"So, by your logic, if 99% of the populace agreed that raping and killing babies was good, it, therefor, would be proven as good?" Yes, if 99% of all people thought that raping babies was a good thing, then raping babies would be a good thing. Obviously. However, that will never happen. Humans have already collectively decided that things such as pain and unfairness are bad. Giving extreme examples does not disprove someone.
October 4th, 2006
(0)
LOL, just wanted to get you to say it. LAWLYPAWPS
October 4th, 2006
(0)
I said a fact, and there was nothing wrong with my fact. Good and Evil are human inventions. They are concepts. They do not naturally exist. "Good" and "Evil" are labels that humans apply to things. Most humans have applied the labels of "Good" and "Evil" to the same things. Most humans agree that charity is good, kindness is good, love is good. Most humans agree that stealing, lying, cheating, murdering, etc, are bad things that should not be done. These are facts. Most humans have decided to give the
October 4th, 2006
(0)
concepts of 'good' and 'evil/bad' to certain things. And those things then become good or bad in humans' eyes, although they were never good or bad to begin with, since good and bad don't actually naturally exist. What is wrong with what I have said? Nothing.
October 4th, 2006
(0)
Final point: Just because you believe in a god or creator, it does not make you a good person or a person who can only do good things and never do bad things. You have a few definitions of what is good and bad that a god gave you, but most of society holds those same definitions, anyway. And most atheists believe in the same definitions of good and bad as most other people. The points you're trying to make really don't hold up to what reality is actually like.
October 4th, 2006
(0)
Okay, final final point: Few, if any, atheists will ever misinterpret their doctrine as you have. Atheists believe in good regardless of whether or not there is a creator, and don't think that 'good' is connected to 'creator'. Final final final point: Even theists do bad things. People do bad things even when they know the difference between right and wrong. So your point falls flat.
October 4th, 2006
(0)
texaggie im taking this as an anti atheism thing... as i think it to be. well said. Thats what it comes down to if you dont believe in a creator.
October 4th, 2006
(0)
as the previous dude said "cold cut wisdom."
October 4th, 2006
(0)
Lol, I really like how all the guys who gave you good votes were the ones thinking you were campaining FOR religion.
October 4th, 2006
(0)
For religion? As stated above. Every person here has shown that they believe in one religion or another. All requiring faith in unproven things. Atheism, in my view, requires the most faith.
October 4th, 2006
(0)
Why do you even bother created this site if you don't care about defining right and wrong? By your logic, this is as pointless as the other site. Why even bother bringing arguments to their "logical" conclusions if you think value judgements are worthless?
October 4th, 2006
(0)
How do any of your anarchist and existentialist rants have to do with atheism? Without a god to believe in, we must all destroy each other and do whatever we feel like doing, no matter how detrimental to society or the propagation of our species? You clearly spent too much time in quantum physics class in school. :P
October 4th, 2006
(0)
Because perhaps some of the peeps that are atheists to go along with a fad will actually realize how logically bankrupt their "beliefs" are.
October 4th, 2006
(0)
Tex, are you in any way a sociopath? It may be foolish, it may be just another cluster of tissues driven by elecrtcal impulses... but I still couldn't bring myself to kill someone. Atheists may not believe there's a god, but that doesn't mean that they are sociopaths. Belief in god merely provides someone with a series of rewards and punishments for their deeds, and lack of it doesn't remove one's drive to "do the right thing."
October 4th, 2006
(0)
This is a mockery of Lave's YTMND... His presented facts, and left it up to the readder to draw their own conclusions. You wave around a phony opinions and try and shove it into people's faces, pretending all the while that it is merely the next logical step in the points Lave raises. You're acting like this is the atheist viewpoint, as if disbelief in a higher power destroys one's morals. Belief is not the cause of love or dignity. Those are purely human traits.
October 4th, 2006
(0)
Only for those ignorant enough to not even understand the ramifications if we all existed by mere chance. I'm glad they remain to be drones however, it makes the world a little bit more inhabitable.
October 4th, 2006
(0)
1'd for sh*t
October 4th, 2006
(0)
Understand the ramificatioins? I realize that the odds were incredible that humanity wouldn't exist in the first place. I know lust how improabably it was that a planet would form with just the exact ecosystems to spawn and maintain life. That doesn't change my view at all. There are no ramifications. The earth is still the only place we can live. My neighbor is still my neighbor. My friend is still my friend. However improbably, it's happened.
October 4th, 2006
(0)
By the way, I apologize for my spelling.
October 4th, 2006
(0)
And tomorrow the sun can blow up and every person you ever have known will be snuffed out, and going back over the entire history of the universe, you were nothing but an anomaly. You caring about whoever has no more importance or meaning than an ant caring about bringing some food back to its queen when it suddenly gets stepped on.
October 4th, 2006
(0)
True, that could happen. And the universe would go on relatively unchanged, I'll give you that. But never did I bring up what effect we have on the universe. How can you back up an argument that humanity is morally bankrupt without a Creator if you just keep referring back to what everyone already knows: that in the major scale of things, we're insignificant. I challenge you to back up your argument with facts from EARTH. And about PEOPLE. None of this existential crap.
October 4th, 2006
(0)
I'm waiting. Let's hear some solid proof that atheists' beliefs or lack thereof make them sociopaths.
October 4th, 2006
(0)
The only facts in the case are how astronomically impossible it is that particles mesh in such a way to create the matter required to build the universe. Other than that, there is no indisputable facts on any side. Every opinion here is about faith. Do you put your faith towards closing your mind, and only believing what you see with your physical eyes? Do you put your faith in believing that we are actually here for a reason, and perhaps the entire universe was created just for us?Your choice.
October 4th, 2006
(0)
Er, not all atheists are nihilists like you. NIHILIM IS NOT THE SAME AS ATHEISM, why did you make this look like a sequel to the Atheist viewpoint? Unless you were trying to make a point that Sagan's quote was not really about Atheism...woah I confused myself. Anyway, 5'd b/c I liked it.
October 4th, 2006
(0)
I'm not saying atheists are sociopaths. I'm saying if no creator existed, it wouldn't matter what you define as morality or good and bad. Your definition is just as valid as Jeffery Dahmer's.
October 4th, 2006
(0)
Those facts don't have anything to do with your point. Regardless of probability, WE ARE HERE. We are what we are, and that wouldn't change even if the chances against us were a number too high to calculate! I have indisputable facts on my side. I agree that we don't matter in the universe, but I'm not disputing that. My point is that human love and dignity remains regardless of faith. Even with the knowledge that we are but sacks of elecrtically charged meat.
October 4th, 2006
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Try kiling a puppy with your bare hands. hard, isn't it? And it's not even human, nor does its life aid survival at all. Hmm. How illogical and strange. Now try killing your brother. You can't do it. And you want to know why? Compassion. Emotion. Regardless of your assertions that logically they shouldn't exist, they do. Even if emotions are illusion... they still kept you from killing that puppy, didn't they?
October 4th, 2006
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I think I was just trying to say that you obviously are a nihilist. It seemed the way this YTMND was designed, and by looking at the comments, people are blending both atheism and nihilism together (and greatevilbe thought it was existentialism). I'm an atheist, but I'm not a nihilist. I'm just making sure you knew the diff when you made this b/c obviously a lot of ppl don't.
October 4th, 2006
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Tex, I eagerly await your rebuttal.
October 4th, 2006
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Ever take Philosiphy NotaNinja? You can't win an arguement against a nihilist haha.
October 4th, 2006
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Purdude, he doesn't believe any of what he's typing. He's mocking atheism, saying that its logic begets moral bankruptcy. He is neither atheist not nihilist... he is merely hateful.
October 4th, 2006
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Emotions? Compassion? lol What weak and pointless things are we. Why does it matter that your brain chemistry makes you cry someone kills a puppy? Who cares? Why should they care? What is it that you are trying to argue here? That because you have compassion, your life has meaning? nice
October 4th, 2006
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I'm not being hateful at all. I'm pointing out what atheists close their eyes to. They can't stand the idea of owing their very existence to a higher power. They close their eyes at overwhelming evidence that there has to be some mysterious order to the universe and how matter exists for us to exist. Credit it to a god, budda, a magic turtle even. Any of those beliefs has more logic behind it than complete atheism.
October 4th, 2006
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Ah, I see now, you're critisizing that element of atheism, that's what I wasn't sure about. You're def. not a nihilist too now that I think about it. I was just trying to see your intention behind this YTMND. Good luck with the arguement fellas =P
October 4th, 2006
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Being humble to your surroundings.. being able to find them beautiful.. being able to respect other life around you.. does NOT mean you have to believe in god... and it definitly DOES NOT mean because you don't believe in god that nothing matters. Watch it again and don't get so defensive because to some people your god is dead. They take the preaching continually that your in thier eyes fictional god rules over everything and them thrown in thier face well enough. I have yet to see athiests form a large g
October 4th, 2006
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group and hate monger.. but I have seen endless god based religions do just that.. and start endless "holy wars". Talk about killing your kids.. I don't even want to begin to calculate how many children have lost thier f*cking lives to "god"
October 4th, 2006
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And if you feel like definding your religion, or anyone elses, perhaps you should look over just how shallowly you encompased athiests, which are a very large diverse group of people with only one small thing in common, a lack of belief in god.
October 4th, 2006
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I am not trying to argue for the meaning of life. I never was. I agree that in a universal scale, we are nothing. LISTEN WHAT I SAY, MMKAY? Before we go any farther, let it be known tat I am a Muslim, and am serious about my religion nonetheless. I have had my religion subjected many a time to what you are now doing to atheism... warping its beliefs, trying to fundamentally disprove it or dismiss it as inhuman... It's all a matter of belief. You're religious. Good for you. So am I.
October 4th, 2006
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stick to physics. +1 for effort. the point of pale blue dot is that we need to pull together, cuz we're f*cked if our whole world depends on just one dot.
October 4th, 2006
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But the truth is... There is no more proof of a higher power than there is of its/his/her/ter absence. Imposing your faith on others... trying to convert people... you're no better than Whestone. I will take my leave now... I can see there's no convincing you of your foolishness. Farewell.
October 4th, 2006
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My final word, Tex... live your own life. Let others live theirs. In a certain light, this may sound hypocritical coming from me, but it is good advice regardless.
October 4th, 2006
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All of the 1s just prove your point. These people are terrified by the ultimate conclusions of their own axioms.
October 4th, 2006
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lol, no.
October 4th, 2006
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lol noctivagus, when you see a movie with horrible acting and a bad plot.. you must be terrorized.
October 4th, 2006
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lol I proved him wrong and he didn't respond loooool. Okay, look. Theists believe that God created good. So you reason that an atheist doesn't believe in good because he doesn't believe that God created good. WRONG. Atheists still believe in good and understand good, they just don't think that any god created good. Respond to this or you admit the hole in your logic.
October 4th, 2006
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"My life is insignificant compared to the universe, so it doesn't matter what I do" WRONG AGAIN. Humans don't think in terms of the entire f*cking universe, we just think about Earth, or one continent on it, or one city on it. And we are very relevant and significant in that one city or continent or planet to ourselves and to one another - and that's all that matters; how much WE care about OURSELVES, not how much the universe cares about us. We're all a cosmic mistake, so let's have fun here on this plant.
October 4th, 2006
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Buy a brain buddy. Good is a subjective concept without a creator. You cannot define it as a definite value. It's impossible.
October 4th, 2006
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"Since having fun is the only point to life, I'll have fun even if it hurts other people!" WRONG AGAIN LOL. People think in terms of the rest of their lives, not the f*cking universe idiot, so people think of the effect their current actions will have on the rest of their lives. So even if murdering someone would make you happy, you won't do that, because you realize that you'd go to jail, and people don't think in these f*cked-up terms of the entire universe, they just think about the rest of their lives.
October 4th, 2006
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" We're all a cosmic mistake, so let's have fun here on this plant." Exactly, and if my version of fun conflicts with yours, I should do everything within my power to overcome yours. That is the only logical conclusion. There is no point for charity, no point for helping others. All that matters is that I get the most I possibly can out of this cosmic fluke.
October 4th, 2006
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Mr Ninja, you fail at winning the argument. The 2 options are A) there is no higher power, therefore there is nothing wrong with me pissing off people, forcing my view on them, or doing whatever I feel like to make myself happy. Because I get to define what is good for myself. B) if there is a higher power, well, you get the picture.
October 4th, 2006
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Since you're such a quantum physics genius, try and wrap your brain around this idea: You're saying that the Earth is insignificant in the giant universe, but this is the truth: EARTH IS THE ONLY SIGNIFICANT PLACE IN THE UNIVERSE. In all those trillions of trillions of trillions of miles of nothingness, this is the only place we know of with life. That makes this place and our lives even MORE significant. Owned, lol. And we don't even think about the nothingless and only think about our short lives.
October 4th, 2006
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Good is subjective to the general concensus of the people. It's no cooncidence that the good portrayed in religious texts is similar to the good atheists perceive, the texts were written by mortal men with the same basic human instinctual values. The idea of good and evil is completely self-serving to humanity, and has no effect on anything else in the universe, but, seeing as we're humans, serving humanity is in our best interests. Wow your sites and logic fail.
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