Citing Sources: A YTMND Lesson
Created on: September 12th, 2006
Citing Sources: A YTMND Lesson
Sources: The SUPERMAN RETURNS trailer, www.slukes.org, www.solarproducts.com, Yellow Submarine, YTMND.

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September 12th, 2006
(0)
and the font?
September 12th, 2006
(0)
◄Nicely done►
September 13th, 2006
(0)
PINK ELEPHANT
September 13th, 2006
(0)
I hope this catches on.
September 13th, 2006
(0)
http://ultimatemedievalytmnd.ytmnd.com/ "I AM MEDIEVAL"?
September 13th, 2006
(0)
Poop on ur fays
September 13th, 2006
(0)
i'm all for good citing, but if you took sound from another site, unless the person you took it from made the music themselves or mixed/edited it, just the artist title is pretty much ok by me... theres only so much space to cite a source
September 13th, 2006
(0)
Shi!t Fuc|K You!
September 13th, 2006
(0)
my ytmnds suck anyway
September 13th, 2006
(0)
:)
September 13th, 2006
(0)
4chan is a source because they got it from there and internets is a source because they got it from there and google is a source because they got it from there.
September 13th, 2006
(0)
Hay! You put your sources! Ya! I just didn't liek your site much. :D
September 13th, 2006
(0)
People make too big of a deal about citing sources, it's not that serious.
September 13th, 2006
(0)
"and the font?" LOL. (Mine is often Trebuchet MS.)
September 13th, 2006
(0)
I lol'd. My favorite citations are "soogle gearch" and "You know"
September 13th, 2006
(0)
I remember the days when people didnt give a sh*t.
September 13th, 2006
(0)
image: cited sound: cited
September 13th, 2006
(0)
A big thankyoumuchly to murphvelocity for acknowledging the badassness of DARKMAN.
September 13th, 2006
(0)
Very nice, and true.
September 13th, 2006
(0)
Let me shake your hand.
September 13th, 2006
(0)
Well if I get an image off 4chan, but I can't put in 4chan, what do I type?
September 13th, 2006
(0)
fart noises
September 13th, 2006
(0)
sweet, noone cares.
September 13th, 2006
(0)
Are you a teacher? I mean citing is common courtesy but not necessary. Are you like a 60 year old man? Would "plagiarism" hurt your feelings if it's a YTMND site? Most of us know when things are stolen and/or repeated anyway... and the votes/comments tend to reflect those things. Glad you took it upon yourself to let us know how to act.
September 13th, 2006
(0)
My mention of 4chan is more of a joke on the site's expense, and how some YTMNDers just steal from that funny-image depository and post without thought.
September 13th, 2006
(0)
citing sources is for f*gs.
September 13th, 2006
(0)
http://plzcite.ytmnd.com/
September 13th, 2006
(0)
Well, you know, I just got it off the internet somewhere. Who cares, right? Sounds like a very Bauman attitude to me.
September 13th, 2006
(0)
stfu
September 13th, 2006
(0)
citing gives dumbasses license to steal, and it gives jackasses warrant to downvote. but the jackasses won't downvote the dumbasses, and all the asses wonder why YTMND is such a sh*tty place.
September 13th, 2006
(0)
Oh noes, pwned again.
September 13th, 2006
(0)
ok mary poppins ill cite my sources after i clean my room
September 13th, 2006
(0)
i'm really digging this music, though.
September 13th, 2006
(0)
citing sources promotes cultural diversity.
September 13th, 2006
(0)
Well done, a worthwhile slideshow. Also, no spelling errors FTW!
September 13th, 2006
(0)
but don't half the GOOD ytmnds come from teh interweb? anyway, yeah, its good to site your sources... because peope need to give credit where credit is due.
September 13th, 2006
(0)
oh yeah, +1 for putting Lex in there... too bad you didn't put "And doing theings the WRONG way." that woulda made me laugh a little.
September 13th, 2006
(0)
Citing sources is what differentiates us from Ebaumsworld. Still, at least put some effort into your YTMNDs. 5'd
September 13th, 2006
(0)
finally, a conclusive guide to citation. also, ALL OF YOU F*CKS SAYING CITATION IS BAD/STUPID, I HEARD ABOUT THIS PLACE YOU MIGHT LIKE: www.ebaumsworld.com NOW EITHER CITE, OR STFU & GTFO YOU ERIC WANNABE.
September 13th, 2006
(0)
extremly gay people care about sh*t like this
September 13th, 2006
(0)
if u have never known the touch of a women u probley care about this
September 13th, 2006
(0)
Congratulations on your gay jokes. Dostoevsky has nothing on you.
September 13th, 2006
(0)
i knew u where gonna say something gay and virgn like to dat thanks for coming though for me
September 13th, 2006
(0)
"i care about stupid sh*t reatared 12 year olds on the interent make" my name is the retarad who made dis ytmnd
September 13th, 2006
(0)
"ebaum wins when u don't cite your sources"-gay f*ggot
September 13th, 2006
(0)
important info here.
September 13th, 2006
(0)
September 13th, 2006
(0)
5
September 13th, 2006
(0)
god this ytmnd is f*cking gay i don't think i can say stress that enough
September 13th, 2006
(0)
lol you cited properly and still got a 1.. damn
September 13th, 2006
(0)
Hooray for education!
September 13th, 2006
(0)
get out
September 13th, 2006
(0)
no u
September 13th, 2006
(0)
I am rating it so I rate 5 because I like it very much. Enjoy your 5.
September 13th, 2006
(0)
I approve of this massage
September 13th, 2006
(0)
God, when did YTMND get so damn serious?! Cite sources or don't, it's your choice. And, more importantly, when did it become okay to make long, drawn-out instruction videos and call them YTMNDs?
September 13th, 2006
(0)
"ok mary poppins ill cite my sources after i clean my room" lol
September 13th, 2006
(0)
gtfo. forced humor
September 13th, 2006
(0)
As someone who is looking to start making YTMNDs and also does not want to be a hypocrite for hating Eric Bauman I congratulate you on your work. Granted some of the info seems obvious, but that just makes me wonder why people are bitching about citing. Also, nice work on the subtle humor to make it watchable. I simply can't get enough of owning Ted Stevens.
September 13th, 2006
(0)
sometimes, people don't actually know where they got it from, especially if you get it from 4chan.
September 13th, 2006
(0)
youre really that desperate for a 5 huh buddy well f*ck you
September 13th, 2006
(0)
I didn't see the source of that drawing cited. Probably stole it from some poor, starving kid in africa who only has mspaint and a month to live =(
September 13th, 2006
(0)
I come to ytmnd to laugh. Not sit thru sh*tting PSAs.
September 13th, 2006
(0)
well produced and I agree... although the comment "ok mary poppins ill cite my sources after i clean my room" made me LOL
September 13th, 2006
(0)
You never explained WHY someone should cite their sources. If you don't explain why someone should cite their sources, then why should anyone feel obligated to follow your YTMND's advice?
September 13th, 2006
(0)
And people made fun of me for putting "citing sources" in the YTMND Voting for Dummies I did.
September 13th, 2006
(0)
I didn't know making ytmnds was wikipedia
September 13th, 2006
(0)
new fad music
September 13th, 2006
(0)
There's no need to get THAT specific, but it's nice...
September 13th, 2006
(0)
^_^
September 13th, 2006
(0)
This whole citing sources thing has been getting quite annoying lately. Some people will find any reason to downvote based on anything they can by any chance find wrong with the ytmnd or the person who made it. Being too serious about it is kind of what the newer generations of ytmnders do, I understand, but really, who honestly cares if you didn't cite? This isn't school. This isn't trying to sell something, so get over it. It's the internet for christ sake.
September 13th, 2006
(0)
Whining about cites = 1. Source: Me.
September 13th, 2006
(0)
We don't make money off of our YTMND's, or get a grade, therefor we don't have to cite. Bitch
September 13th, 2006
(0)
Well, I guess we get grades from each other, but they don't mean anything. You didn't cite in your image section, punk
September 13th, 2006
(0)
thank you. I love you.
September 13th, 2006
(0)
5 for some random points, -3 for nothing, +3 for everything
September 13th, 2006
(0)
I'm glad someone finally made one of these. I like how idiots think citing isn't a big deal...
September 13th, 2006
(0)
5'd for great justice
September 13th, 2006
(0)
+4 for the site +1 for citing
September 13th, 2006
(0)
Thank you, this actually convinced me to go back and fix the sources for most of my ytmnds (i.e, the ones that were made before improper citing was a big problem around here).
September 13th, 2006
(0)
:)
September 13th, 2006
(0)
1 for implying that you have to edit whatever it is you're YTMNDing. see: original YTMND, period
September 13th, 2006
(0)
thank you!
September 13th, 2006
(0)
I agree with this. Make more of these YTMND lessons. If you need some ideas for them, just PM me and we'll talk. :)
September 13th, 2006
(0)
4'd because i've never heard of darkman. oh wait, i counted wrong. 5.
September 13th, 2006
(0)
lol pretentious
September 13th, 2006
(0)
"sometimes, people don't actually know where they got it from, especially if you get it from 4chan." Don't know who made it? Don't post it.
September 13th, 2006
(0)
All sites being 1'd for anti-Bauman and pro-source citing
September 13th, 2006
(0)
wow. They'd rather downvote your site than cite their own ytmnds. Amazing. Max said in an update that we have to be more careful with our sources, so that's what we (read: you guys... I fail at making ytmnds) have to do.
September 13th, 2006
(0)
There is a difference between what Bauman does and people who don't cite sources: Bauman is making sh*tloads of money, as evidenced by the huge mansion he's got. People who do it here, are just posting for kicks. No commercial intent. HUGE difference IMHO.
September 13th, 2006
(0)
Also, I don't think there is much of a difference between using an image from a google image search or 4chan from ripping from a movie or video. It's not original art in either case.
September 13th, 2006
(0)
Honestly, if a ytmnd doesn't have sources, I either don't rate it, or deduct a couple of stars. Some people include some really kickass songs, and it's a shame when they don't cite a source for it. So guess what downvoters: people do care when the sources are blank or just wrong.
September 13th, 2006
(0)
You're 100% right on this. I propose that all like-minded YTMND users come together and write a more definitive, comprehensive guide to citing sources and put it on the Wiki page. A standardized citation method is more important than ever before now with the search by image/audio source function.
September 13th, 2006
(0)
Darkman...OW YEAH
September 13th, 2006
(0)
This should be required viewing for Noobs...Darkman? Your joking right?
September 13th, 2006
(0)
{lol} is not a source
September 13th, 2006
(0)
True that Bauman is different in a monetary sense, but I'm also considering this creatively. Least we can do is pay tribute to the artists who have helped get where the site is today, and where it's going. Thanks to everybody who's discussed this topic so far. You downvoters are a riot.
September 13th, 2006
(0)
Understood. Deploying X136000
September 13th, 2006
(0)
GAY GAY GAY GAY GAY GAY GAY GAY GAY GAY GAY GAY GAY GAY GAY GAY GAY GAY GAY GAY GAY GAY GAY GAY GAY GAY GAY GAY GAY GAY GAY GAY GAY GAY GAY GAY GAY GAY GAY GAY GAY GAY GAY GAY GAY GAY GAY GAY GAY GAY GAY GAY GAY GAY GAY GAY GAY GAY GAY GAY GAY GAY GAY GAY GAY GAY GAY GAY GAY GAY GAY GAY GAY GAY GAY GAY GAY GAY GAY GAY GAY GAY GAY GAY GAY GAY GAY GAY GAY GAY
September 13th, 2006
(0)
Hmm I agree pretentious as hell though citing sources covers ur *ss and let's you get away with parody/fair use vs thieving, which, let's face it, YTMND is literally built on.
September 13th, 2006
(0)
I also agree, by the way, with smt about ripping from movies and TV series; hence "gtfo" #2. (lol, tongue-in-cheek) However, I believe there are instances where the nature of YTMND in itself subverts the original artwork. As gunhaver so helpfully pointed out, the original YTMND's loop exemplifies that nicely.
September 13th, 2006
(0)
Enough of these YTMND mothering sites.
September 13th, 2006
(0)
YTMND seems to be the whiny crybaby of the internet nowadays.
September 13th, 2006
(0)
yes sir Happy Noodle Boy sir!
September 13th, 2006
(0)
4 for anal
September 13th, 2006
(0)
Darkman was so dumb...but awesome.
September 13th, 2006
(0)
omfg iwnt all your babis
September 13th, 2006
(0)
u rock
September 13th, 2006
(0)
Actually sponsered YTMNDs do make money for YTMND. Even if the opperating costs are higher, now that we have ads, this is some sort of a money making operation. Theres still a difference between not citing sources and stealing sh*t, and making money off ads, but its getting smaller. Also dickweeds claim that original YTMND was not a parody: It wasn't the actual clip from the movie, was it? No the random *ss picture of sean pointing ads to the whole thing. It wasn't just stealing it was some sort of juxposition. Don't be a dick and think this is equilolent of reposting internet cartoon or video with a lower frame-rate.
September 13th, 2006
(0)
Well-said, snickle, and probably more eloquently than I ever could.
September 13th, 2006
(0)
nice
September 13th, 2006
(0)
I'll give this a 4/5. Not bad, overall.
September 13th, 2006
(0)
Yes its not hard people! cite sources!
September 13th, 2006
(0)
i like it, and i fail.
September 13th, 2006
(0)
I do see your point but sometimes great sites aren't cited.
September 13th, 2006
(0)
Ah sank yuh!
September 13th, 2006
(0)
Jeezus..I've seen less strict citing rules in law school! :)
September 13th, 2006
(0)
a singular focus not a f*ggy short film
September 13th, 2006
(0)
Seriously a big problem with YTMND's. I admit to not having the best citations on the site, but I at least try. Leaving cites blank is the exact same thing a certain Ebaum we know does with his whole site. Trying to cite sources is a step in the right direction, whether or not they are completely correct. You can always try, then later, fix things up. Too bad many people don't even give the effort in the first place.
September 13th, 2006
(0)
How about pointing out the gay citing that just has another ytmnds name. Instead of putting Sound: random.ytmnd.com PUT THE NAME OF THE FU*KING SOUNG AND LINK THE YTMND.
September 13th, 2006
(0)
i think sources were properly cited if I have enough info to find the original
September 13th, 2006
(0)
Imo remove the citations on this YTMND for the ultimate irony:)
September 13th, 2006
(0)
not the biggest deal in the world.
September 13th, 2006
(0)
I was planning on giving this site 4 stars, but your reply "Congratulations on your gay jokes. Dostoevsky has nothing on you." sealed the 5.
September 13th, 2006
(0)
Pretentious.
September 13th, 2006
(0)
You should've left the boxes blank for the lulz (but cite them in the description)
September 13th, 2006
(0)
k thx by.
September 13th, 2006
(0)
you win
September 13th, 2006
(0)
die you nazis... who gives a sh*t if you dont cite your sources...
September 13th, 2006
(0)
The only comment I'd have to make is with something from a TV show. If I found a funny clip from a TV show, I probably would not exactly want to go to all the trouble to look up the season/episode number and the title of the episode, especially if I didn't have a clue where the clip came from. For me, just the title of the TV show is fine. Other than that, though, great work.
September 13th, 2006
(0)
1 for not properly citing sources.
September 13th, 2006
(0)
The original YTMND used google as a source. Therefore google is a proper source. Fail
September 13th, 2006
(0)
keep up the good work :)
September 13th, 2006
(0)
You get an A+.
September 13th, 2006
(0)
It's good and helpful, but citing sources really is an overdramatized problem. Most people too stupid to cite are usually too stupid to make good YTMNDs in the first place and are doomed to crappy ratings regardless if they give credit. I mean, just setting a random GIF you find to music and crediting the originals doesn't make it any less of a crappy YTMND.
September 13th, 2006
(0)
I cite my sources. But this ytmnd is sh*t.
September 13th, 2006
(0)
I think your too picky about some of the source detail. Sometimes I find something on my harddrive from years ago and cannot remember the sorce.
September 13th, 2006
(0)
foad
September 13th, 2006
(0)
2 for "if you're not editing, then gtfo". Ever heard of the ORIGINAL YTMND?
September 13th, 2006
(0)
well if you really want to get serious, this isnt an accepted method to cite sources... (but dont worry, maybe theyll teach you that after middle school)
September 13th, 2006
(0)
wtf's with all these downvoters.. I hate it when people dont cite.
September 13th, 2006
(0)
A fellow Darkman fan. Sweet.
September 13th, 2006
(0)
quite nice. good pace, nice soft music, and etc etc.
September 13th, 2006
(0)
2'd, because while I am HUGE on citing sources, a lot of this I don't agree with. Also, it was long, juvenile, and poorly made. The funniest part was when you said "if you're manipulating the image somehow (and you should be or gtfo)" If you're actually serious (and you should be or gtfo), I refer you to mr. connery: http://www.yourethemannowdog.com
September 13th, 2006
(0)
good gorb
September 13th, 2006
(0)
I'm more referring to the picture-sound combinations which come from the same scene and the same film. I also refer you to my previous comment: "lol, tongue-in-cheek." Not to mention the fact that I did, in fact, say that the FINDING FORRESTER trailer is already subverted for several reasons, not limited to the picture, the loop, and the text. You know. The fundamentals.
September 13th, 2006
(0)
Well played, sir. Well played.
September 13th, 2006
(0)
citing sorces is a way bigger deal than it needs to be. who cares if you didn't make something? (better question: why does all of YTMND care?)
September 13th, 2006
(0)
Cheese to go with you whine?
September 13th, 2006
(0)
*your
September 13th, 2006
(0)
"2'd, because while I am HUGE on citing sources, a lot of this I don't agree with. Also, it was long, juvenile, and poorly made. The funniest part was when you said "if you're manipulating the image somehow (and you should be or gtfo)" If you're actually serious (and you should be or gtfo), I refer you to mr. connery: http://www.yourethemannowdog.com" I see this argument come up way too often. Max took a line that was not intended to be funny and created an entire cult around it. When I downvote thieves, I'm downvoting people who save an image someone else spend time on, add in the typical overused music and call it a YTMND. Sorry, that doesn't fly with me.
September 13th, 2006
(0)
I don't have a problem with people taking images already established as funny, as long as they cite the source and BE CREATIVE with it.
September 13th, 2006
(0)
5 for great justice!
September 13th, 2006
(0)
Well, if the picture of the ytmnd in question is trivial, and you honestly googled it, then give that as your source. If it's a unique animated GIF or photoshop that someonebody made, then take time to track the original creator down.
September 13th, 2006
(0)
yeah youre right but it was incredibly boring.
September 13th, 2006
(0)
September 13th, 2006
(0)
5
September 13th, 2006
(0)
a ytmnd about ytmnd have a look at this
September 13th, 2006
(0)
Would have been funny if you had left your sources blank.. but it's just lame. (though helpful to some morons, not that they'll change their ways, or that i really care anyway)
September 13th, 2006
(0)
Words, Words, Words.
September 13th, 2006
(0)
3'd for effort, but besides that, this is lame, who cares if someone didn't cite it? quit bitching about it, send them a mail and ask them what it is from and that is it...
September 13th, 2006
(0)
Wow that was just about as fun as reading an MLA style guide.
September 13th, 2006
(0)
Meh, too much like work. If it's a rip of another YTMND though (like http://thor-spinnaz.ytmnd.com/) cites are a must. Also, tatas.
September 13th, 2006
(0)
IF I WANTED TO READ A BOOK I WOULD.... READ A BOOK!
September 13th, 2006
(0)
YTMND isn't a research paper. I'm not citing what line on what page I got a perticular piece unless someone's giving me credit. Stars don't cut it for credit IMO. BTW, 4chan is a OK source considdering EVERYONE there is 'Anonymous'.
September 13th, 2006
(0)
I like how citing sources only got big after people realized they were being hypocrites for raiding Ebaums.
September 13th, 2006
(0)
Stupid ytmnd. It was only a matter of time before it was made. Here's an idea for your next one...voting? what the corner box does? oh man, already been done. The ins and outs of nws and ws? There ya go.
September 13th, 2006
(0)
maybe its time for someone better at lawyer sh*t to write a blanket Creative Commons for the site
September 13th, 2006
(0)
and since we're all about being entirely into citing, your sources should be listing verified entire URLs and access dates, not just top level domains. if this was a research paper, this might get referred to an academic honesty committee.
September 13th, 2006
(0)
f*ck you for being anti 4chan.
September 13th, 2006
(0)
Sources plz
September 13th, 2006
(0)
September 13th, 2006
(0)
1'd for not citing your sources correctly. I'm pretty sure none of those images came from this "See Description" movie. everyonefails.ytmnd.com
September 13th, 2006
(0)
Nice, but you are forgetting your fundamentals. Picture. Sound. Text. A singular focus, not a f*ggy short film. (Source: picturesoundtext.ytmnd.com)
September 13th, 2006
(0)
5'd ONLY cause of the music. This whole cite your sources stuff is over the top.
September 13th, 2006
(0)
its not that big a deal and if it is for you, and i never saw anyones reason for downvoting becuz sources werent cited
September 13th, 2006
(0)
Thank you, I am so sick of these kids not giving any credit whatsoever.
September 13th, 2006
(0)
Darkman = 5
September 13th, 2006
(0)
Too pretentious for my liking. The only person that has the right to make a site like this is max.
September 13th, 2006
(0)
cite these sources
September 13th, 2006
(0)
September 13th, 2006
(0)
I can sign on board both chun li and proper sources.
September 13th, 2006
(0)
Sumguy21 approves of this message.
September 13th, 2006
(0)
yes
September 13th, 2006
(0)
boring
September 13th, 2006
(0)
Isn't this exactly why there was that "mystery song" ordeal?
September 13th, 2006
(0)
check out some of Max's best sites (CUPPYCAKE GUMDROPS, What's New Pussycat, OMG WERE BACK), no sources. These types (about siting sources, not Max's) of YTMNDs just don't do it for me.
September 13th, 2006
(0)
hurrah
September 13th, 2006
(0)
Awesome.
September 13th, 2006
(0)
September 13th, 2006
(0)
Apparently nothing can get some of you to sit through two-and-a-half minutes of reading. Not even Chun-Li music. ADD for the win.
September 13th, 2006
(0)
yes
September 13th, 2006
(0)
Funny and informitive
September 13th, 2006
(0)
YOU NEED TO F*CK OFF WITH TEH SLIDESHOZ CHIEF
September 13th, 2006
(0)
very anal, and not worth the effort.
September 13th, 2006
(0)
Who gives a damn? Only dumbasses will downvote for sources.
September 13th, 2006
(0)
You A Winnar
September 13th, 2006
(0)
For those of you unaware, failure to not properly cite sources is PLAGIARISM and is a CRIME. citing sources is the difference between stealing another's work and claiming it as your own, and properly giving proper to the original creator and intellectual property owner of the work. it's what seperates YTMND from ebaumsworld.
September 13th, 2006
(0)
Haters are mad cause they steal sh*t and don't wanna fess up to it
September 13th, 2006
(0)
these kinds of ytmnds are pointless
September 13th, 2006
(0)
no ur just an ass
September 13th, 2006
(0)
U DID NOT CITE WHERE U GOT BLAK BAKGROUND U FAIL LOLOLOL
September 13th, 2006
(0)
nice, but that's too much work,and half the time I don't know where the f*ck it comes from other than '4chan' so YOU can gtfo for all I care. Still 4'd anyway
September 13th, 2006
(0)
Yeah... wow. Very creative and I'm sure this'll change the way people think. Oh, and it was hilarious.
September 13th, 2006
(0)
http://vote5citingpoland.ytmnd.com/
September 13th, 2006
(0)
It seems that I have been owned by sarcasm. Nice one there, Ralph Malph.
September 13th, 2006
(0)
get a life..
September 13th, 2006
(0)
Good job. This needed to be done.
September 13th, 2006
(0)
There's a difference between a 2 and 1/2 minute YTMND and a boring 2 and 1/2 minute YTMND.
September 13th, 2006
(0)
Public service for the win. Don't let those uncaring jerks get you down.
September 13th, 2006
(0)
Also; 'Google' does not count as a source; Google doesn't own any images , audio files, etc, with the obvious exception of their own graphics.
September 13th, 2006
(0)
1 for boring
September 13th, 2006
(0)
educationial and funny, just the way i like it.
September 13th, 2006
(0)
Nice! I like Chun Li's theme.
September 13th, 2006
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Lol, you should have left your sitations blank.
September 13th, 2006
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Yay for humor without your anal-retentiveness
September 13th, 2006
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You win. Good day, sir.
September 14th, 2006
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September 14th, 2006
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waaaaaaa go bitch about something else n00b
September 14th, 2006
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the sound on this ytmnd is the best thing i've ever heard
September 14th, 2006
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commented on the wrong site, disregard previous comment please.
November 23rd, 2006
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Is it really necessary to write "+ editing"? Hopefully you changed it enough that is is obvious.
January 14th, 2007
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fail
February 17th, 2007
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wrong, epic fail